The Podcast Strategy Behind My 7-Figure Business Growth With Dustin Riechmann

Episode 59

The Podcast Strategy Behind My 7-Figure Business Growth With Dustin Riechmann

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[00:00:00] Cold Open

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[00:00:00] Dustin: On the front end of this strategy, it's about podcast selection, right? It's like which show do I want to be on?

[00:00:05] Dustin: What story am I gonna tell? What's my call to action? That's kind of the main things that you can control. And then after the show records and publishes, then these strategies, like how much do I care about this? How much do I want to, invest time, money. And then I get to the people who react, connect, and are interested in either knowing about what we do as a client, connecting with me as a partner or wanna invite me on their podcast, I have conversations with those people on the back end, and that is literally how we built this seven figure business in a couple years is really this strategy.

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[00:00:41] Meet Dustin Riechmann: The Podcast Guesting Expert

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[00:00:41] Allan: Welcome to the Lean Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Allan Dib. Today with me, I've got a guest, Dustin Riechmann. And I saw Dustin on another podcast. It was with Nathan Barry. Excellent podcast, by the way. And I reached out to him because I felt like he had something unique to offer, [00:01:00] and it's a different marketing tactic that I haven't seen a lot of people talk about.

[00:01:04] Allan: Now, a lot of people know that presenting yourself as an authority, as a thought leader, as someone who's bringing new insight into your industry is powerful. But what I like is Dustin's put a framework to that, and specifically in the podcasting world. So it's kind of mattered. Dustin talks about podcast guesting to generate leads and things like that.

[00:01:23] Allan: And so our guest today is Dustin Riechmann. We welcome Dustin

[00:01:26] Dustin: Allan. Yeah, it always is a little bit meta sitting in this seat when I'm a guest on someone's podcast, teaching people how to be a guest on someone's podcast. But it also has a lot of credibility 'cause it's like I am practicing what I'm preaching, right? Yeah. But I'm really grateful to be here.

[00:01:39] Allan: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you for coming on. Maybe just to give people a little bit of context who are you what do you do and who do you do it for?

[00:01:47] Dustin: So I'm Dustin Riechmann. I run a company called 7-Figure Leap, and we help mission driven entrepreneurs grow seven figure brands by telling their story. That's sort of the tagline version of what we do. Uh, if I walked into a conference with you, [00:02:00] Allan, they would say, oh, that's Dustin. He's the podcast guesting guy.

[00:02:03] Dustin: So I very much have an identity in the marketplace as someone who helps solopreneurs, small teams grow through the power of story by getting on other people's podcasts and building a marketing system around that.

[00:02:15] Allan: Nice. I'm always fascinated by someone who's taken a single tactic and just, taken it to the extreme so scattered, they'll try 10 different tactics and get a little bit of progress in each you've said, no, I'm gonna be fully focused on podcast guesting.

[00:02:31] Allan: I'm gonna do it at a world class level. I'm gonna create a framework. And you've done that. And interestingly, you've got to from zero to seven figures just based on that one single tactic which I love. So I'd love to hear a bit of the background and the story on, how did you get to the point to, to say, "Hey,okay, I'm starting from zero.

[00:02:50] Allan: I'm gonna use podcast guesting as my. Strategy to, to build the business.

[00:02:54] Dustin: that's a great question.

[00:02:55] From Meat Sticks to Marketing Success

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[00:02:55] Dustin: The tongue in cheek answer is meat sticks. And so that's kind of the middle of [00:03:00] this story and I'll, I'll give a little context um, because people are, oh, you're a coach and you teach people a podcast guesting. I'm like, yeah. And I got on my very first podcast to sell meat sticks.

[00:03:10] Dustin: And what happened before that was I was an engineer for 17 years and I got into online marketing and ended up leaving engineering to do marketing consulting. Formed a partnership with a local butcher in my community who was a marketing client of mine. And ended up launching a brand called Fire Creek Snacks, selling meat sticks like better for you, healthy meat sticks.

[00:03:30] Dustin: And we developed this whole approach to marketing that was based on traveling and sampling and going to trade shows and selling into specialty retail, golf courses, gift shops, stuff like that. And we were doing pretty well and had a pretty good rhythm going until March, 2020 when I was uh, driving from my home in St.

[00:03:50] Dustin: Louis to up to Chicago for a trade show. And it was canceled. And then I came home and, almost all of my family's income came from me serving local businesses with marketing and [00:04:00] most of them were closed 'cause of COVID obviously. And so that was sort of that pivotal moment where I was like, I gotta do something from home.

[00:04:07] Dustin: I'm not sure what to do. I was a huge podcast consumer. I saw a lot of the founders I admired constantly being on podcasts. I was like, there's gotta be a reason to do this. And so I pitched a podcast, summer 2020, got on. Sold some meat sticks to strangers on the internet. I was like, this is kind of crazy.

[00:04:24] Dustin: And then I just started doing that very methodically, kind of applying my engineering brain and was like, I'm gonna make this a system and I'm just gonna keep doing it and see what happens. And we got some cool stuff for that brand, Fire Creek Snacks. We grew that brand of seven figures with no paid ads, which was pretty kind of an unusual story in the e-commerce circles.

[00:04:42] Dustin: So some people started coming to me and saying, how'd you do that? And so then that led to some one-on-one coaching engagements, which has led to group coaching. And now I've grown basically 7-Figure Leap the brand to seven figures in a little just over two years. Basically doing the thing we teach, which is podcast guesting and more advanced [00:05:00] partnership strategies that come from it.

[00:05:01] Dustin: But that's how I got into it. I did not wake up one day and like, man, I wanna be the podcast guesting guy. I also didn't want to be the meats stick guy. But these opportunities found me and I leaned into them. And this one I've found a, I found a home with it. The, I love the community, I love the methodology, and I think we've done some really innovative, cool stuff with it beyond what's visible here in the initial interview.

[00:05:22] Allan: I mean, that's a crazy story. Like, uh, someone, someone came to me as a marketing consultant, said, I need to sell meat sticks. Never in a million years would I have said, "Hey, podcast guesting is the way we're gonna sell a whole boatload of."

[00:05:34] Dustin: Well, and the crazy thing, I mean not, I don't wanna misconstrue that we did definitely sold a lot of meat sticks to consumers, right? And that was the initial idea. But what happened was I realized that this medium is actually a way to build high quality relationships at scale. And so, so what I started to do was form partnerships, collaborations, getting hold of buyers at larger retailers.

[00:05:57] Dustin: And so we got a [00:06:00] $550,000 purchase order from this company called Snack Nation, which was the largest subscription box company in the U.S. at the time. Because I was on their podcast and developed a relationship and got the sample and proved our worth, and then they placed a big order. We ended up in Walmart through a relationship that came from a podcast.

[00:06:16] Dustin: So yes, we sold meat sticks to like individuals from Shopify store transactions. But the big movers were these relationships that we were able to drive through podcast guesting. And that was really instrumental in like how we do this now. It is about direct sales, but there's so much beyond the direct sales that add value to this methodology.

[00:06:38] Building Relationships Through Podcasting

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[00:06:38] Allan: So there's two things to talk about this is there's the relationship component,

[00:06:42] Allan: like, how did you select, hey what kind of podcasts I'm gonna be on? What do I hope to achieve from that? Because certainly up until now, and this has been my own experience, and what I would've advised someone, I would've said, podcast guesting is amazing, but it's probably a middle of funnel thing.

[00:06:58] Allan: It's not a top of [00:07:00] funnel thing. So, because discovery is kind of a challenge with podcasts and things like that, but once people already know about you, they'll Google you or search you on YouTube or search you on their podcast platform, and then they'll consume some of the content. And we've found that certainly in our sales process, someone might say, "Hey, I first read Allan's book and then I Googled his name, found him on a bunch of podcasts" or whatever.

[00:07:21] Allan: I really enjoyed such and such episode. And that's what I've found. But I've not found it to be like a top of funnel kind of lead generation technique. And maybe that's because it's just not been done in a systemized way or in a way that's set up for that. But maybe talk us through.

[00:07:39] Allan: All right, we're going back COVID where you've gotta sell meat sticks. What was your thought process? How did you choose the podcast and what was your message on those podcasts?

[00:07:48] Dustin: I love it. And we'll definitely talk more about like that whole middle top funnel bottom funnel, kind of how this fits in. Yeah, going back. So if I was answering this question today and helping someone pick a [00:08:00] podcast, I would not do it this way, but what I did at that time, 'cause I was just trial and error, is I said, what's a podcast that I could maybe approach?

[00:08:09] Dustin: So I had a very loose connection to a podcast called The Side Hustle Show with a guy named Nick Loper, like from a previous online business. I kind of got to know Nick a little bit. We were Facebook friends, I knew he had a podcast. It was pretty big. And I knew I could create a story around what we were doing that would fit.

[00:08:25] Dustin: I sent him a cold pitch and I said, "Hey Nick, like you might remember me, you might not. I'm now doing Fire Creek Snacks. Here's why I think this would be really timely." And the way I framed the story, which all the framing is always true, right? But, it's, you spin it in a way that is compelling.

[00:08:40] Dustin: I said I helped a local business create a product and sell it online, which has become really useful in COVID 'cause now we're like four months into COVID at the time I sent this pitch. So I did legitimately help this butcher shop, which is actually shut down in my state at that time, have income because we were selling online to the [00:09:00] world at a time that he couldn't open his front door.

[00:09:02] Dustin: And that was a very compelling story for The Side Hustle Show because it was like, oh, other people could go partner with local businesses and help him sell online. So that was the initial hook. And then, you know, progressing from there. I tried things that I, I would think would be much more logical, like I got on ketogenic like diet and fitness podcast.

[00:09:20] Dustin: 'cause you're like, oh, it's a low carb product. These guys eat protein sticks. This makes sense. And it was real flat. Like, I didn't get much response. That audience was looking for like doctors and medical advice and bodybuilders. And here's Dustin talking about this consumer packaged good. Where I ended up finding a ton of resonance is actually a marketing podcast.

[00:09:38] Dustin: And I like my, some of our, my biggest wins and some of where some of these relationships came were from like Shopify podcasts where I would get on and talk about how we structure our offer and how we got a good conversion rate. And eventually I started talking about the podcast guesting strategy as a marketing strategy for other e-comm brands and how we got into Walmart when that happened.

[00:09:58] Dustin: And so, I [00:10:00] think that makes sense in hindsight because I love marketing and it was like, I was very passionate about that part of the business, but it was a pretty untargeted audience. I think people bought and fell in love with the story. It was just an all American small business success story.

[00:10:14] Dustin: And I think that was more about why it worked than the product itself. And again, now I have a different framework and stuff that we helped people with, but that's the path for Fire Creek Snacks.

[00:10:23] Allan: Okay. And then how did the big relationships that translated to large orders and things like that, how did they come about?

[00:10:31] Dustin: Yeah, so I, two quick examples 'cause they're very different in how they came about. The first time this happened, I remember it distinctly, it was a show called BiggerPockets Business, January, 2021. I'm on this show telling the small business success story of our product. And this guy named Daniel reached out and Daniel ends up being a really instrumental person in my life because he was the, he reached out and he is like, Hey man, I'm a mountain biker.

[00:10:53] Dustin: I bought your sticks, they're really good. I'm growing a YouTube channel, could you help me? And he's like 24-year-old [00:11:00] guy, and I'm a little bit older than that, and he's like, and I'm like, I guess. And so he was the first person that ever paid me for what I would consider coaching. So that was really interesting.

[00:11:08] Dustin: And then after our first conversation, he is like, oh, by the way, I live in Bentonville, Arkansas. I work at Walmart in the finance department. I'm a new guy, but it would be helpful if I could like, basically look through the company directory and find out someone you could talk to here? And I'm like yeah.

[00:11:21] Dustin: And so he put me in contact with the meat snacks buyer, who to his credit, gave me an hour of his time and we had a really good Zoom call and we were nowhere near ready for this as an opportunity, but it planted a seed. And then he loved our story, listened to the podcast, he passed it on to his next person.

[00:11:38] Dustin: And eventually we got a meeting in Walmart and got in Walmart. It would've never happened without Daniel. But I think what I want the listener to hear that it's also not like the CEO of Walmart. It was like, Ooh, I gotta listen to this podcast we gotta have this on our shelf. It was a relationship process.

[00:11:53] Dustin: The second example with the snack box, much shorter. I knew this brand hosted their own [00:12:00] podcast. And their podcast basically did brand profiles of the people that they featured in their boxes, right? And so, we were not in their box, but I found this guy on LinkedIn. I started talking to him a little bit on LinkedIn.

[00:12:11] Dustin: He was kind of struggling with pivoting their business model and COVID and so were we, and I was like, "Hey, I'd love to tell our story on your podcast." And so he let me on and we gave a really good brand story about Fire Creek. And then with that, I said, "Hey, would it be possible to do a sampling? We'll donate snacks, put us in some boxes, see how it goes."

[00:12:32] Dustin: And he's like, "Yeah, we'll do that. We like you guys." And then it got really rave reviews and they ended up saying, you're our featured snack for the year for this category. And that was where that big purchase order came from. So that was a little more intentional than the Walmart one, but it all had to do with building relationships and then following up intentionally with them.

[00:12:50] Allan: So talk a little bit about that. How much of this strategy is essentially building relationships and how much of it is actually kind of [00:13:00] creating a top of funnel? Because I've always viewed, like, part of the value of this podcast to me is, yes, I'm gonna generate content, I'm gonna connect with listeners and things like that, but a lot of it is I'm just gonna be able to have cool conversations with cool people, right?

[00:13:16] Allan: And so, and a lot of the people I have on this podcast, they're super busy people. They're authors, they're speakers, and it'd be weird for me just to reach out and say, "Hey, let's get on a Zoom call and just shoot the breeze for an hour or so." But if I say, "Hey, come onto the podcast and talk to our audience and we'll have a chat, whatever."

[00:13:33] Allan: That's cool. So part of it is me essentially, having my group of friends and associates and cool people that I enjoy speaking to having a platform and a way that's kind of not weird to have them on. So, how do you think about that in terms of your podcasting strategy?

[00:13:50] Dustin: So I'll make a distinction here between hosting and guesting. So, for three and a half years I only guested on other people's shows. I never had my own podcast. I did that for about a year [00:14:00] and a half, two years for Fire Creek, and then about a year and a half for this brand. And then last year, about 18 months ago, I did start my own podcast, right, with this specific strategy.

[00:14:09] Dustin: And it very much mirrors what you said, Allan. It's like, I want to have Jay Papasan and Pat Flynn, and, hopefully soon Nathan Barry, and maybe Allan Dib, like I can extend invitations to some really cool people that I admire. That's one reason to have my own podcast. I like to feature a lot of client success stories, which is a conversion mechanism. And it also sort of acts as a reward when someone does really well in our program. It's like, "Hey, I'm gonna be featured on Dustin's podcast."

[00:14:33] Dustin: Yes, it creates content. I do solo content. I'm able to send that as like a resource from people, kind of FAQ content, right? So there's a lot of reasons to do my own podcast, but my focus so far on everything I've shared and kind of the thing I'm known for more than that is the guesting.

[00:14:49] Dustin: And so, if I'm gonna be a guest on someone else's show it definitely applies to a funnel. I tend to describe it more as a flywheel and maybe it's my Nathan Barry uh, affecting, he talks a [00:15:00] lot about flywheels. Kinda the same idea. It's just the flywheel's a closed loop, obviously instead of a funnel.

[00:15:05] Dustin: But one way I like to talk about this that I think will answer your question the most directly is. It's like what's direct marketing results? And then what's like relationship building, relationship capital and how do those things both coexist and what are the benefits of each, I guess is so on the surface what most people think about with podcast guesting is, oh, like I'm gonna go on this podcast.

[00:15:28] Dustin: There's some people listening that might like me and they might opt into my email and then they might buy my coaching. And that's all true. Like that's great. And that I would describe that as more of the linear aspect of podcast guesting. It's like if I do 10 podcasts and they're all the same size, I'll probably get 10 times as many leads and sales as if I did one podcast.

[00:15:47] Dustin: And it's pretty predictable if you do it right and you're telling the right stories on the right podcast with the right call to action, that alone creates an ROI on your time that you most people would say is really worth it if you have an offer, that backs it [00:16:00] up. So kind of say, okay, that's kind of like the table stakes.

[00:16:03] Dustin: That's what everyone talks about. What about the relationship part of this? So every podcast I'm on, I build a relationship with a host. I wouldn't know Allan Dib had he not accepted me to be on his podcast and maybe three years down the road will be out at a conference and we'll collaborate on something and I'll be like, wow, what a difference that made in my life.

[00:16:22] Dustin: But every podcast at least meet a new host. And if I foster that relationship and I do a good job as a guest, they're gonna know me, right? And that's important. There are the listeners. And the other thing that opens up to me now is all the guests on your show, I'm not going and pitching and doing anything weird with them, but you know, I will look at who those people are and we might very well connect on LinkedIn and I might find collaboration opportunities.

[00:16:46] Dustin: And so it kind of opens up this sort of backstage pass into the other guest. So there's lots of different layers to this relationship building. But like my Daniel story or like that Snack Nation story. Any one of those on any given [00:17:00] podcast could actually be a huge inflection point in my life and my business because they're humans.

[00:17:05] Dustin: So unlike the email list and the sales, which are linear, where I see this, where I have seen this and experienced in my own life, the step changes or the exponential aspect of this is the human to human connections that are coming from it. And so any given human in this scenario could kind of be a unicorn relationship that, who knew Daniel would inspire me to start a coaching business and get me into Walmart from one conversation about mountain biking.

[00:17:29] Dustin: But that's reality. Had I not done that podcast, that relationship never happens. And so they're hard to predict that it's a little bit like playing the lottery, but when you stumble upon like this virtuous relationship it can literally change the whole trajectory of things. And so that's how I think I, I segregate these is like, there's the linear results that I can predict and then there's this irrational stuff I can't predict, which is the most fun and the most impactful, but you can't get it if you don't do the reps.

[00:17:56] Dustin: And so, it can be a bit of a funny thing for people when they start this [00:18:00] process.

[00:18:00] Allan: Yeah. Well you, mentioned kind of, I think about luck a lot and you talked about like winning the lottery, that's kind of blind luck, right? But what you are talking about is setting yourself up for lucky situations.. Like if you are talking to really cool people who are doing really cool stuff on a regular basis, your probability of luck goes up dramatically versus, "Hey, it just dropped in my lap from the sky."

[00:18:23] Allan: Right? So.

[00:18:24] Dustin: TED Talk, I hope people look it up. It's called Engineering Serendipity, and it's like, on this topic, it's like how do you create luck, like in a very scientific way? I mean, the fact that I'm sitting here talking to you as an example, someone invited me to go to this conference a year ago in Boise, Idaho.

[00:18:39] Dustin: I'm like, my wife and I are going to Italy. I can't go to this conference. He's like, you gotta go. He is a close friend. I'm like, fine. I squeezed in this trip. In that room, I met a couple people that I ended up having on my podcast. These people to make a long story short, ended up connecting me back to Nathan Barry, who hosts the same conference, by the way.

[00:18:57] Dustin: I kind of met Nathan there, but it wasn't like [00:19:00] that happened immediately. But through them I met Nathan in a deeper way. He invited me on his podcast. It went really well. And now I'm talking to you. And literally today as we're recording this, it's evening in the US here. I've had four, five figure sales from people that booked calls from that Nathan Berry interview.

[00:19:17] Dustin: So Nathan Barry has become a unicorn in the matter of a month. And honestly, it's not even, he doesn't have a big show, but he has a really unique and niche show, and I think I did a good job and I've followed up appropriately and so is that luck? Yeah, some of it. But luck doesn't happen if I don't show up on Nathan's show.

[00:19:37] Allan: I like that. Yeah. It's engineered luck, right? So, that's awesome. That's awesome. Okay, so, I think we're probably convinced that podcast guesting is a good idea for multiple reasons, obviously building relationships for lead flow.

[00:19:50] Allan: So talk me through your thoughts around it being top of funnel, middle funnel. What are your thoughts there?

[00:19:56] Dustin: Yeah. So my business and a lot of [00:20:00] our ideal clients' businesses, I would say are built more on quality than quantity. Meaning I don't have a lot of top of funnel in my whole business. Like I'm on LinkedIn and there's some like top of funnel awareness there. To be, just throwing numbers around, and I don't know if this is damaging admission or if this is bragging.

[00:20:15] Dustin: I don't know. But we hit seven figures in this business before I had a thousand people on this email list. So, you know what I mean? Like, and most of the people on the email, not most 25% of the people on the email list were clients that did pay this $10,000 or more for a program. So when I say quality over quantity, so for me in this business, I came from a background of doing digital courses and memberships, and I understand the funnel and the top of funnel.

[00:20:39] Dustin: Podcast guesting. I think you're totally right in that it really hits at the middle of the funnel. However, I don't think it has to only be like a return path, middle of funnel, meaning, like what you described is totally true in that Someone's like, I'm thinking about Allan. I heard of Allan and I Googled him and I'm like, oh, here's a podcast with Allan.

[00:20:57] Dustin: That's like return path, middle of funnel. I [00:21:00] think of it like the very first time someone hears me, I will probably take them from top of funnel to middle of funnel and maybe even all the way to the bottom of the funnel in one interview, because it's a long form educational setting. They're choosing to listen.

[00:21:13] Dustin: I'm not interrupting them. They trust the host who's endorsing me by having me here. I'm hopefully being effective, telling good stories, teaching, and so it can kind of be a full funnel experience and I don't think many people, it's like top of funnel and then it stops. It's like you're not discovering me and then staying at top of funnel.

[00:21:32] Dustin: You may just not discover me at all because not that many people in the scheme of the world listen to this podcast or any podcast, but those that listen are really gonna know me and it and so it's a high degree of conversion, high degree of know like and trust factor in one sitting to a limited audience is the reality.

[00:21:50] Dustin: I wish, I guess if I'm ever on Joe Rogan or something, there, there's some big audiences that would be more like top of funnel, more like Oprah Winfrey would've had on TV, but most of the time it's a niche audience [00:22:00] who's there for a very specific reason, and that fits my business model really well.

[00:22:04] Dustin: So I'm happy with that.

[00:22:05] Allan: Okay. So you've got me convinced um, I

[00:22:08] Dustin: Let's, let's stand, I'm literally in this corner of my eye. I have your books and I'm like, am I trying to teach marketing to Allan Dib here? No, but

[00:22:15] Allan: No.

[00:22:15] Dustin: kind of give my experience with how this functions, so

[00:22:18] Allan: I love the beginner's mindset. I have no ego. When there's something to be taught I'm learning. So, I've been a guest, I would guest on hundreds podcasts by now, and I've definitely made sales from that. Like, I know for a fact, like my team tells me someone heard you on Chris Do's podcast or someone heard you on Pat Flynn's podcast and they came through the program, so on and so forth.

[00:22:39] Allan: So without a shadow of a doubt, but like I said, mostly I've found it being a middle of funnel thing. Coach me through what I'm doing wrong, like, uh, so,

[00:22:49] Dustin: You are putting me on the spot. So I think the best way to explain this is this silly analogy I use that tends to stick with people. I call it The [00:23:00] Profit Cake. And so, it's the idea that in any given podcast interview, you're really talking to three different audiences and a lot of people miss the opportunity 'cause they're not doing this or they're not doing this proactively after the interview.

[00:23:12] Dustin: So at the base of the cake is the part that we've already talked about, that everyone thinks about, and that's the audience, right? So I'm on this podcast, some number of people are gonna hear it. That's like the base of the cake. Think of it like a really wide layer that's pretty shallow. 'Cause %like, they're mostly gonna stay anonymous.

[00:23:29] Dustin: 3% to 5% of them might, raise their hand and say I want more information. I might buy from Dustin. I might wanna be on this email list, maybe 10%. But most of people are just gonna be anonymous. But that's who we talk to and that's who we teach. That's who the host wants us to serve. And they're important, but they're one layer of three.

[00:23:45] Dustin: The second layer think of it as like a taller layer. So it's got more depth to it, but it's narrower there. There's less of these people. I call this like the pure partner layer. So in a given interview, in the interview, or especially after the interview we are proactively looking for [00:24:00] collaboration partners.

[00:24:01] Dustin: Other people's podcasts to be on. The host is almost always in this category. Like I'll be thinking, is there something I can help Allan with? Maybe there's a way we can deepen this relationship. Maybe I can do something for him and promote his book. And maybe, at some point we collaborate.

[00:24:14] Dustin: I don't know. But there's a peer partnership level here that's not sales, but it is collaboration. And I have a lot of examples of kind of those relationships. And then at the top of the cake I would call it like the prospect layer, high ticket prospects, right? So if you have a sales pipeline, who are you proactively putting in there to make high ticket sales from this appearance?

[00:24:35] Dustin: That's gonna be the narrowest. There's not very many of these in a given population, but one of them is worth a lot, right? Because they're big dollars. So then the question becomes, how do I approach or capitalize on all three layers of the cake? Probably the easiest way to, to explain this is just use a quick example.

[00:24:52] Dustin: I have a client, his name's Andy. Very niche service. He does Google Ads for craft food brands. I met him back in my meat stick [00:25:00] days and actually hired him. And that's how I got to know him. And he ended up in my program and we developed this whole strategy for his business. So as an example, Andy gets on the Shopify Masters podcast.

[00:25:10] Dustin: It's all Shopify oriented. So there's brands on there and there's experts on there that help e-commerce stores. He gets on, he talks about his secret sauce for Google Ads. So in the interview, he is teaching his Google Ads special sauce. He has a call to action that's like, let me audit your Google Ads account.

[00:25:28] Dustin: If you're a food brand, this is what we do. And he's capturing some portion of that bottom of the cake, right? Some listeners are gonna respond to that, and that's good. And in the same interview, he could say, oh, by the way as I get into this, I just wanted to clarify. I only do Google Ads. So if there's anyone listening who serves food brands and they do like social media or SEO or Facebook Ads, like, please reach out to me. I'd love to collaborate. I'm sure I have referrals for you. We turn people away all the time. 'cause we only do Google Ads when that little call out. There's these people listening [00:26:00] to the show who could very well be referral partners, obviously to him and reciprocate.

[00:26:04] Dustin: And then at the top of layer of the cake, he may say nothing in the interview and just like do the interview. And he's kind of done this exercise that I described. Now the interview publishes. And then he uses a strategy like one that, one that we love to use is called mining the Guest List.

[00:26:21] Dustin: And I kind of mentioned this earlier, Allan, like this is not spamming the other guest, but Andy could very easily now go to every guest that's ever been on the Shopify Masters podcast. And every guest that will be on the Shopify Masters podcast, 'cause they're interviewing someone new every week and he could easily say, Hey in the past six months, there's been 16 Shopify Plus food brands interviewed on this podcast and now he can reach out to them, say on LinkedIn Connect, say, "Hey,you're on this show. Congratulations. I was on there too. We're both in the Cool kids club. So they connect and then it's natural to start having a sales conversation just like he would with any prospect, except he's chosen the prospects, he knows their food [00:27:00] brands on Shopify.

[00:27:01] Dustin: He could even listen to their interviews, or he could have a virtual assistant do that. And so now he's got a pipeline of leads that is basically an evergreen pipeline of leads that he can select. And so one bucket in that guest list would be what I just described, high ticket prospects. The top of the cake in that same guest list would be collaborators.

[00:27:19] Dustin: Maybe they just interviewed an expert on AI for Shopify. And I interviewed an expert on LinkedIn content for food brands or whatever. And now these are partners in a second bucket. And then the third bucket he will find in that same guest list, people with podcasts, people with YouTube channels that he can go kind of leapfrog over and say, "Hey,we were both on the same show.

[00:27:38] Dustin: I'd love to come teach your audience about Google Ads." And he's got the endorsement effectively of the host to do that.

[00:27:44] Dustin: I know that was a lot. That was like an advanced little example, but that's what I mean by there's a lot more that meets the eye. It is not just that base layer. There's lots of strategies to proactively create the luck, I guess.

[00:27:56] Dustin: But all that I described, there was some form of relationship [00:28:00] building, right?

[00:28:00] The Importance of Preparation in Podcasting

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[00:28:00] Dustin: And that's the key.

[00:28:02] Allan: It's not only relationship building, but it's also preparation. Like I think what's clear to me where I'm probably going wrong in some of this is probably 80% of the podcasts I'm on, they ask the same questions, it's the same interview, all of that. So I can do it with my eyes closed.

[00:28:19] Allan: And there's not a lot of preparation. There's not like I come on, I tell my stories, I tell my message, all of that sort of thing, and I've really kind of got it dialed in. And I think there's not enough of that prep where either myself or my assistant or someone can go in and say, "Hey such and such has been on the show before."

[00:28:35] Allan: Maybe it's worth reaching out or this sort of thing. So I think that's pretty clear. I'm basically just coming on doing my thing and leaving. And obviously anything that you do that way, you're not gonna get massive outsize results

[00:28:48] Dustin: right. Yeah.

[00:28:49] Strategies for Effective Podcast Guesting

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[00:28:49] Dustin: And it's on the front end, and obviously you're getting invited and you're on some big shows. For most of the listeners who are mere mortals, that might not be the case. So on the [00:29:00] front end of this strategy, it's about podcast selection, right? It's like which show do I want to be on?

[00:29:04] Dustin: What story am I gonna tell? What's my call to action? That's kind of the main things that you can control. And then after the show records and publishes, then these strategies, like I was just describing, pick up. And then it's like, how much do I care about this? How much do I want to invest time, money, and energy into what we like to do is, you know, empower a virtual assistant to do the vast majority of the legwork.

[00:29:26] Dustin: My role in this and when we run people through our program is I show up and do the interview. And obviously I'm usually talking about a subject matter that I am comfortable with and love to teach. And then someone else is mining that guest list. They're actually connecting on LinkedIn. I do pick up the DM conversation pretty quickly 'cause I want to be authentic and connect with these folks, but I'm kinda like the monkey who shows up and gets to teach on the show.

[00:29:49] Dustin: And then I get to the people who react, connect, and are interested in either knowing about what we do as a client, connecting with me as a partner or wanna invite me on their podcast, I have conversations [00:30:00] with those people on the back end, and that is literally how we built this seven figure business in a couple years is really this strategy.

[00:30:08] Dustin: And then extensions of it, like, I was on Pat Flynn's podcast, but then I had Pat on my podcast, and then as we developed a relationship, he's like, can you come teach in my mastermind? And then I went and guessed in a cohort based course they were doing, and then I was hanging out with him at Craft and Commerce and then he introduced me to some other people.

[00:30:26] Dustin: And so there's ways to deepen each of these relationships further when you find like one of these really key relationships. But on the surface it's kind of a mechanical exercise and it's totally something that you can operationalize.

[00:30:39] Allan: Is the strategy different for in-person podcast? I'm doing more and more these days. I'm doing in-person podcasts versus remote. Does it differ or is it similar?

[00:30:48] Dustin: Uh, I'd say it's very similar. Everything on the backend I would say is similar. I would say what the difference is, and I've noticed this trend as well, Nathan Berry's, where we met was in-person. I think I've done four in-person this year, and I'd only [00:31:00] done like one in the previous four years.

[00:31:02] Dustin: Maybe five I've done this year. I'd say the difference is because it's in person, you have a much better opportunity to build a relationship with that host. In Nathan's case, he invites a small batch of people out to do it. And then we had dinner with him and his team the night before, and then I was in kind of in the lobby with three or four other people all day while we were recording our interviews.

[00:31:22] Dustin: And so if anything, it's puts you in this rich sort of soup of opportunity to like connect with people in person. And then the interview itself I find is more valuable in the sense that the assets created are more rich, right? I felt like he and I had a better rapport because we're really standing there in person.

[00:31:37] Dustin: And then the quality of an in-person studio at the level that they do it. I have an amazing interview that I pass along all the time now 'cause look how, it's like being on TV in a studio. So yeah, I'd say like it's better than remote in that sense. Obviously there's the opportunity cost of traveling, but as far as what happens after the interview publishes, I'm not sure it's any different.

[00:31:57] Dustin: But the relationship I think [00:32:00] can be with the host can be deepened a lot more quickly 'cause you're, shaking hands and hugging and sharing, sharing coffee and all that stuff, so.

[00:32:08] The Rise of Video Podcasts

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[00:32:08] Allan: And what are your thoughts around appearing like on video, like on YouTube, more and more podcasts and now video based? My view is that YouTube's essentially gonna take over podcasts versus just kind of audio podcasts. But like, are you doing anything different when you are presenting visually?

[00:32:24] Allan: Because obviously you've got an opportunity to show something or draw something or whatever, or are you still optimizing for an audio experience?

[00:32:31] Dustin: It's a great question. I do agree with everything you said. I'd say 90% of the podcast right now, if you're gonna be a guest on them, are gonna have a video component. 90% of those are this format, which is great. It's Riverside or different platforms and you get a high quality, high definition video.

[00:32:47] Dustin: But it's kind of this, side by side video. And then they get published in full long form content on YouTube, which has its benefits for discoverability. And then often they're gonna do some editing and make 'em into clips and make [00:33:00] 'em a little more spiffy to put on Instagram reels and YouTube shorts and all that.

[00:33:03] Dustin: So, yeah, I don't, I can't imagine a podcast with a future except for the equivalent of like a, someone who's doing it because it's like a legacy sort of shtick of like, I do audio only, kinda like, people love vinyl, that, that sort of thing. But in general, everyone's gonna be doing video first.

[00:33:20] Dustin: Because I think this is what you were alluding to, Allan, like audio's great for consuming. I consume almost every podcast on audio. I just like Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It's simple. It's good for consuming. It's absolutely atrocious for discoverability. Like no one finds podcasts that way. They all find podcasts either through referrals.

[00:33:39] Dustin: Like, oh, I heard Dustin, I'm gonna go like subscribe to 7-Figure Leap 'cause I like Dustin. But the vast majority, to your point, it's on YouTube or Instagram reels or whatever. That's where they're discovering the podcast. You gotta do video. And then to answer your last question. It's not honestly something I've thought a lot about because I haven't been presented with the opportunity.

[00:33:59] Dustin: As I reflect [00:34:00] on why the Nathan Barry interview is so effective, we had visual aids. You're absolutely right. We talked for a while out at the table and then we stood up on a blackboard and we're drawing. It was very tactile. We could point at stuff and kind of riff, and I do think there's a huge opportunity for virtual interviews to use virtual whiteboards or to have some sort of better camera technology where I could go draw and whiteboard.

[00:34:23] Dustin: So that's a great point. I think that there's a lot of room for innovation to have a better visual experience than this without having to be in person. 'Cause right now I think the people that want a better visual experience are saying, you have to come to my studio. And that's hard, especially you're in Australia, it's like, oh, I'm gonna come to the US for a 45 minute interview.

[00:34:41] Dustin: Probably not, unless it is one of the biggest ones in the world. So, I don't know. That's a great thought at, had actually never even occurred to me of how could we make a video enhancement? And maybe that's something I could test on my own podcast, so.

[00:34:53] Allan: Yeah, I think that'd be cool. More and more on calls and coaching calls and things like that I'm using and an iPad and [00:35:00] actually drawing things out. I think just the talking head not that it's necessarily boring, but it's just like, it's a recurring pattern and people kind of just when you have something that's a bit of a pattern interrupt and someone's watching you draw something or put something together on screen I find it's just a lot more engaging and yeah.

[00:35:19] Allan: So any way that we can be a pattern interrupt from a marketing perspective, I think is

[00:35:22] Dustin: I love that. Yeah. When we do workshops, we got the head and then the slide with the head, and I've definitely found, let's stop this right now and I'm gonna get out the Apple pencil and I have horrible handwriting, but people are pretty captivated. But what is he trying to draw? But it becomes interactive at that point, so I totally agree with you.

[00:35:39] Midroll Ad

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[00:35:39]

[00:35:39] Allan: Hey, it's Allan here, ready to dive deeper into today's marketing insights? Head over to leanmarketing.com/podcast. To get a full summary of today's episode, including all of the resources mentioned, go to leanmarketing.com/podcast. Now, back to the show.

[00:35:56] Maximizing Lead Generation from Podcasts

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[00:35:56] Allan: So, from a tactical perspective one of the things that [00:36:00] we've started doing, actually we've been doing it for a while, but like if I appear as a guest on a podcast, I'll have someone in my team just set up a unique link so that we say, "Hey I'll mention on the podcast or the host might mention, you'll get the first chapter of both of my books for free.

[00:36:13] Allan: Just opt in here on the email list." And then we can track, we can say, "Hey, we got this many opt-ins or whatever from Dustin's podcast or Pat Flynn or whatever." So is that something that you are doing as well? And like, and I'd love to know tactically more about, " Okay, great you are networking with a guest, you are doing some research. You are connecting with some of their other guests." What else from a tactical point of view will move the needle in terms of generating lead flow?

[00:36:40] Dustin: Yeah. Good question. The honest answer is I do some of that, but not a ton of that as far as having a specific landing page for a specific podcast I did for Pat Flynn's. I honestly didn't for Nathan's probably should have in hindsight. However, whenever they opt in from either the sources, one of the very first questions they can't miss is like, where [00:37:00] did you hear about us?

[00:37:00] Dustin: Or which podcast did you hear about us? So I do get some pretty good data on that. But like with Pat's, because it was a bigger opportunity, I was like, I created a landing page just for Pat's audience, right? So you totally can do that. So you could totally create a custom landing page or custom URL per podcast and you could track that.

[00:37:18] Dustin: I tend to not overdo those things because in my experience, attribution's very difficult in any marketing, right? But especially in relationship based marketing. Like when we start a new group in our cohort, the, in the first call, one of the things I love to do is I have each person as they introduce themselves, say, how did you meet Dustin?

[00:37:36] Dustin: Not as an ego trip, but as an instruction to the other members. 'cause what always happened is they're like, oh, that's a good question. Like, I know I heard him on Allan's podcast, but then I started following his LinkedIn, I got on his email, and then I went to this workshop and then I shook his hand in Boise.

[00:37:49] Dustin: And it's like always multiple attribution points. And it's like, who gets the credit? It's the classic marketing question.

[00:37:55] Allan: Allan gets the credit, of course.

[00:37:57] Dustin: Yeah, Allan gets the credit. Right? But you know, [00:38:00] that's the reality though. It's everything's so multi attribution. It's cool to track. So my practical advice is if you've got a big opportunity or if you're like, "I'm only doing five of these period."

[00:38:10] Dustin: Do it. I'm doing 'em so frequently. The signal and the noise don't really make sense. It's not worth putting that much effort into tracking because to me it all kinda works out. That's answer one is a kind of attribution. I think you can do it, you can do it better than I do it.

[00:38:23] Dustin: And then as far as some other tactical things to create value. So, as a guest, you can, man, it's like asking the question of like, how do you build relationships? It's kind of an open-ended question. There's lots of ways. Some of the things I'm doing, I'll just maybe that's the easiest way to answer this, is I am proactively growing my LinkedIn following.

[00:38:45] Dustin: So I only have one social media channel by design. I just do LinkedIn. And so, how do I grow my LinkedIn? We post content, but a lot of that actually happens from the back end of these podcast appearances through the guest list, or when people reach out and opt in for our [00:39:00] email list, we're encouraging them come follow me on LinkedIn.

[00:39:02] Dustin: So I got a couple different points of influence there, if you will, touch points with them. So I'm growing my LinkedIn through podcast guesting. I have the podcast of my own. And so that really plays heavily into this strategy, right? Because the podcast is a third leg of a stool here in that I use it for different purposes than guesting, but the, they totally tie together because if I get a really good guesting opportunity, there's a very good chance I'm gonna ask that host to be on my podcast.

[00:39:29] Dustin: And vice versa, sometimes I can start on my podcast and it goes really well and they're like, "Hey, you should come over and be on my podcast." And so these are symbiotic 'cause it's podcasting and people are tend to be cool in that way. So tactically, if you have a podcast or you wanna have a podcast, I would first of all start with guesting.

[00:39:45] Dustin: But once you've got a guesting rhythm going, the best way to grow your podcast is podcast guesting because kind of we talked about earlier, other than discoverability on video-based social media platforms, podcast to podcast listenership is the way to grow your own [00:40:00] show. And so I'm kind of going off on a tangent podcast hosting here, but a lot of people, these are two sides of the same coin.

[00:40:07] Dustin: And that's how I see the two relating. So I'll be quiet for now, but there's some

[00:40:11] Dustin: of the things I'm thinking about currently with podcasting.

[00:40:13] Allan: That's valuable. So, and in terms of the content, do you steer it in a particular way as a guest? Because a lot of people, just myself included, we try to come on a podcast. We try and spit wisdom and sound really clever and have good answers and stories and things like that, but that's not necessarily something that's optimal for conversion.

[00:40:32] Allan: Like, I would do a sales call differently than I would do a podcast interview or that sort of thing. So is there a way that you steer the conversation so that it's optimal for lead flow those sort of thing?

[00:40:44] Dustin: Yeah, I'm really glad you asked that one. I would not treat a podcast interview as a sales call, right? Like it's not a webinar. People aren't showing up there for that. And so, respect the medium and you can definitely do things to influence people. The way I like to think about this, I literally just coach [00:41:00] people today on a call about this, begin with the end in mind.

[00:41:03] Dustin: So the most important thing that you're gonna do in the interview is have a call to action, right? And so that call to action at the end of the interview is, what's that next step you want people to take? So let's start with that. And once you know that, then think about the stories that make people want to take that call to action, right?

[00:41:19] Dustin: And how do those stories relate to your identity? That's how you introduce yourself. I could come on here and be Dustin, the husband of 23 years and father of three. If that was relevant, I came on here and talked about, I'm the podcast guesting guy because that's what I want people to take action on, right?

[00:41:34] Dustin: So how you introduce yourself is very important, and it totally is tied to what call to action you're gonna have people do at the end of the interview. And then the things in the middle, which is 80, 90% of the content should be generally story based or teaching based. And the key to a good story I'm not sure I demonstrated that well today 'cause I'm kind of in teaching mode today primarily.

[00:41:56] Dustin: But generally you want to kind have a one-two punch, [00:42:00] empathy and authority. And so if you ask me a question, I can answer the question without giving a rote bullet point response, right? So we see this a lot of times in politics where they take it to an extreme, someone asks 'em a question and they answer something completely different.

[00:42:16] Dustin: You do have that agency as a guest where you can answer it in a way that you want to answer it. Now, you still wanna respect the host and answer it, but start with empathy. So how can I relate to the audience as I start to answer this and then take that into authority, right? So it's like, oh and I've solved this problem.

[00:42:31] Dustin: The classic example of this, and the one thing everyone listening can take away. There's always gonna be an opportunity in every interview to tell your origin story and which origin story depends on what call to action you're gonna have. My origin story today was my meat stick story, right?

[00:42:46] Dustin: And it was like, oh, I had the successful business. I had COVID, anyone listening who's like, I got wiped out in COVID too. Or, yeah, like I don't really have predictable leads either. What if, and now, and then I said, then I stumbled onto the solution and then [00:43:00] I've helped 200 people and sold $20 million in stuff with people using podcast guesting.

[00:43:05] Dustin: That's a good story. And that has empathy for people who don't have a really solid marketing plan. Do they feel vulnerable in some way or they're scared or they've been through the ringer as far as having their marketing fail and it's got the authority. Like I actually know what I'm talking about.

[00:43:19] Dustin: A lot of this interview has been authority. 'cause you've asked me some really good questions about strategy and tactics, but I still got the origin story in there and that's important. So.

[00:43:29] Allan: Okay. So, origin story connected to the call to action. And the call to action is what usually, like what's a good call to action in this case,

[00:43:37] Dustin: Yeah, typically it's gonna be your lead magnet, right? So it's gonna be the, that first step in the transformation you provide for people, typically free. So, for coaches and consultants, that's typically gonna be, the free report, the assessment or quiz the book, the one page marketing plan, or the you know, in my case it's a playbook on how to do podcast guesting the Fire Creek, 'cause it's a physical product.

[00:43:59] Dustin: It was a coupon [00:44:00] code to go, kind of redeem and get a heavily discounted or near free sample. So the whole interview is like, know, like, and trust at the end of 30 minutes, 45 minutes. I know this person, I think I like them and I'm starting to trust them and they've taught me something that I'm really intrigued to know more about.

[00:44:16] Dustin: The call to action is the bridge from that experience over into my world, right? Like, this is your platform to bring someone over into my world. I've gotta give them, obviously a something of value. So they opt into my world, typically an email opt in, and I'm gonna deliver some great value, and then that's gonna deepen that relationship and eventually maybe they'll buy something.

[00:44:35] Dustin: So, not rocket science, it's a clear, simple call to action that bridges people from the interview experience into the sales experience or further education experience in your business as the guest.

[00:44:47] Allan: Are there particular lead magnets that you found that work particularly well, better than others? Like, a quiz is a different experience versus than a video series or a tool or some

[00:44:57] Dustin: I'd say a well done quiz, and that's a [00:45:00] huge qualifier. A well done quiz or assessment is probably top of the line for multiple reasons. The main one being it is customized and prescriptive. Right. And so this isn't so much about the podcast, so in the podcast I might be teaching, I didn't even talk about my framework and we don't need to, but I'm teaching the 5Ps of podcast, guesting how to do it profitably, right?

[00:45:21] Dustin: For me it makes sense it's kind of a heavy topic I'm going through a lot really quickly. And so I'm gonna give you a playbook that lets you walk through the 5Ps. It's got interactive elements that you can just go do this for yourself. That's cool. But if I give you this information and you're kind of sitting there like, that was really helpful.

[00:45:36] Dustin: I'm a little overwhelmed. And then I say, oh, I've got a quiz. Like, if you're interested in how mushrooms can improve your health, if that was the thing I'm an expert in, go take our quiz. It's gonna take you five minutes. It's gonna tell you exactly which mushrooms to order and it's gonna make this personalized to you.

[00:45:51] Dustin: That's the key. And so that's really effective. People love self-assessment. People love custom results. And then for me, as the marketer and the [00:46:00] salesperson, I gather that data, so I know a lot about them now. And I'm able to prescribe them a solution, right? It's like, oh, you need Lion's mane mushrooms.

[00:46:08] Dustin: And so they're much more likely to actually take that. And so, obviously the same is through of coaching consulting. So I'd say a quiz is top. I'd say a book is really good. As long as you don't overwhelm them with requiring them to consume the whole book to get any value. And then things like playbooks, email courses. I think the days of a generic PDF that they can get off ChatGPT is probably not good.

[00:46:30] Dustin: But something that's really tied into building self-belief in them that they can do the thing that you taught about that's like the real key. And a quiz is really good at that. And so is something like what I do, which is a playbook, that's an interactive playbook. They get to actually build their own podcast guesting system and it builds self-belief.

[00:46:49] Dustin: They're like, oh, I can find podcasts. Like, oh, I do have a story to tell. And it's like. And then eventually, hopefully they're like, I need help with this. I want to do this the best way possible. And then they, invest in us to help 'em.

[00:46:59] Allan: [00:47:00] It's interesting that you said quizzes. I actually had a webinar a couple of weeks ago with Daniel

[00:47:04] Dustin: Yeah. I love Daniel's stuff.

[00:47:06] Allan: yeah, so Daniel's super smart guy and a good friend and he's built ScoreApp and it's a great tool that really helps you build those quizzes. But one of the things I love about quizzes is that data collection is not a weird, creepy thing that you're doing.

[00:47:22] Allan: It's like, it's a core part of the deliverable, right? Right. So, how many employees do you have? And the other thing that I really like about it is it's really building that awareness of gaps that the person has. It's like, have you got a lead flow system that's working for you right now that's generating 10 leads a month or more?

[00:47:38] Allan: Yes. No, kind of, no. And you were saying you are finding out all of these gaps and then you can generate a custom report. So I really like that about the quizzes. But the other thing that I really like about them is you end up with a score of whatever. Like we've got a quiz called the marketing IQ quiz, which takes you through, we ask a lot of questions and then we give them a score on different areas.

[00:47:59] Allan: And of course, [00:48:00] whenever you give someone a score, they wanna improve that

[00:48:01] Dustin: Yeah. Almost 68. How do I get to a hundred?

[00:48:04] Dustin: Yeah, I love that.

[00:48:06] Allan: Exactly. So it's a great tool. I highly recommend it. And

[00:48:10] Dustin: I like Score App a lot and it has made this a lot easier. I mean, even several years ago. I would tell people, man, this would be perfect for a quiz or an assessment. Right? And the tech was hard. People don't really know what questions to ask. Now with AI and the work that Daniel does, it's a lot easier.

[00:48:26] Dustin: And that's why I said, "Hey,'cause if you deliver a quiz, that kind of sucks." It's tarnishing to your brand. They're like, "This doesn't make any sense." Or like, "These results are super not helpful." Right? That's actually bad. But if you're delivering a good quiz and people are like, Ooh, this is intriguing.

[00:48:41] Dustin: And yeah, it's a self-discovery process. You get data on them, you get macro data over time, so you're like, "Hey,out of most people that take this, 80% have this problem. We should start a product for this problem." So there's so many good reasons to do a quiz. And it's awesome that you you did something with Daniel that he's on my list of people I'd love to collaborate deeper with.

[00:48:58] Dustin: 'Cause he's one of those [00:49:00] with you. He's a top thought leader. He is someone I consume a ton of podcast content from 'cause I think we just share a lot of values and how we do marketing, so.

[00:49:08] Allan: Well, happy to connect you with Daniel.

[00:49:09] Dustin: I appreciate it. There you go. See? Like this is relationship building in action. So

[00:49:13] Allan: Relationship building live. That's cool. Dustin, you've been very generous with your time. Before we wrap up I'd love to just get a very quick, kind of high level overview of, you said the 5P four P's, or

[00:49:25] Dustin: Five. Yeah, I can do 'em quick.

[00:49:26] Allan: Five. All right.

[00:49:27] Dustin: All right. So yeah, so we teach the 5P framework. If you want to go deeper on this, you can go find that Nathan Barry podcast. That was the core of that whole interview. Basically to set this up, I usually find people in two camps. They come to me and they say, I've done like three podcasts.

[00:49:41] Dustin: They happen kind of randomly, I got a sale, I made $5,000. I would love to do this as a system or I've been on a hundred podcasts this year, Dustin. I'm like, "Ooh, that's kind of cool. I guess. Do you have a business? Yes. What has this done for your business? I don't know. Like I'm getting on a bunch of podcasts."

[00:49:57] Dustin: I really can't measure the results. So [00:50:00] we work through this 5P framework. This is what our 90 day program is all centered around. And the 5Ps are purpose, plan, pitch, perform, and profit. And the real quick summary, we start with purpose. This is the part that everyone skips and it messes everything behind it up.

[00:50:14] Dustin: And that's getting really clear on why you wanna do podcast guesting as a strategy, and that you, to answer that well, you have to know who you want to reach, what transformation you provide them, what's the message that you want to put out to them. And with that, you can set goals and you can actually have like KPIs and actually measure the results of this effort.

[00:50:32] Dustin: So purpose is really important once you're clear on why you're doing it and who you're reaching. Step two is plan, that's just finding the right podcast. So finding profitable podcasts is way easier once you know who you're trying to reach and what your goals are. And once you find those podcasts, step three is pitch.

[00:50:47] Dustin: That's like asking to be on them, and we've got a whole, approach to that makes it effective and not creepy. And once they say yes to your pitch, step four is perform. So that gets a little more into what Allan and I were talking about. How do you introduce yourself? What your call to [00:51:00] action, what are the stories that you're gonna use to just be an effective guest, not just friendly, but an effective guest.

[00:51:06] Dustin: And then step five is profit. So that's a lot of the other stuff we talked about earlier, the profit cake and the guest list, and some of these more advanced strategies. In the 90 days we work with entrepreneurs. The first 30 days is the first four Ps. So like getting the podcast system running is a 30 day process and we're getting people booked on podcasts in 30 days.

[00:51:29] Dustin: 60 days is what do we do after the thing's published? How are we leveraging every podcast appearance to actually grow our business, satisfy those KPIs we set in Step one, get measurable results, grow the relationship, flywheel, all that stuff. And so that's the 5P's. Purpose, plan, pitch, perform, profit, they're in order, they have to be done in order.

[00:51:50] Dustin: It gets really messy. And generally, if I had a quiz right now, I don't, I have one to tell your audience. It would be a diagnostic to help them find which of these PS is screwed up the [00:52:00] most and how we could fix it to make this a much more profitable enterprise for them.

[00:52:05] Allan: Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you Dustin. I really appreciate your time today. You brought a lot of value and where should people connect with you? If they want to know more about profitable podcast guesting and more about what you

[00:52:17] Dustin: I appreciate this. This is another meta moment I have to give the call to action. I have talked about. So yeah, it's really simple, 7figureleap.com/start. And it's gonna take you to this profitable podcast guesting playbook that I've already described. So if you want to actually consume the 5Ps and actually start to take action, find your first podcast, write the pitch.

[00:52:36] Dustin: We give you all our templates, we give you everything you need to go use this podcast guesting strategy. And then if you want help with it, you wanna be in a community with other people doing it well. You want personal help, that's the coaching program we sell. But for free 7figureleap.com/start, that'll get you kind of everything you need to master the 5Ps.

[00:52:56] Allan: Amazing. Thank you so much, and we'll of course link to that in all of our show notes.

[00:52:59] Dustin: [00:53:00] Absolutely. Well, Allan, it was a pleasure really grateful for the opportunity to come and jam for a while on marketing with one of the masters. This has been awesome.

[00:53:07] Allan: Thanks, Dustin. Good to have you on.

[00:53:09] Allan: Thanks for tuning in to the Lean Marketing Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by the Lean Marketing Accelerator. Wanna take control of your marketing and see real results? With the Accelerator, you get proven strategies, tools, and personalized support to scale your business. Visit leanmarketing.com/accelerator to learn how we can help you get bigger results with less marketing.

[00:53:33] Allan: And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review or share it with someone who would find it helpful. See you next time.

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