Drunk Business Ideas: Entrepreneurial Escapades with David Jenyns

Drunk Business Ideas: Entrepreneurial Escapades with Allan Dib and David Jenyns
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David: Don't tell me, have you been holding out on me with more of these drunk business ideas? Do you have a couple more up your sleeve?

Allan: Welcome to the Lean Marketing Podcast where we unpack strategies and tactics to help you make more profit, build a business you actually love while doing less marketing and getting bigger results. I'm your host, Allan Dib. Today, we've got a friend of Lean Marketing. He's a recurring character in our world.

It's Dave Jennings from Systemology. And for those of you who don't know Dave, he's the author of a book called Systemology. He's an expert in business systems. He helps a lot of our clients with that. He's a master of, business systems in general. And we'll talk a little bit about that, but. What you may not know is David is kind of like my unofficial therapist know, he lives nearby on a pretty regularly on a Sunday morning.

We'll go for a walk or a cold plunge or something like that. And we talk a lot about, various stuff. And so many times, I mean, we've been together where I've said, damn, we should [00:01:00] have just had a microphone and recorded that. Probably a lot of stuff we say might get us canceled or whatever. It's not necessarily fit for public consumption, but we'll share with you what, is here.

And so, welcome to the show, Dave.

David: Hey Allan, I'm looking forward to this. This will be great.

Allan: For in the rare circumstances that somebody doesn't know who you are did I miss anything? who are you? Why should people listen to you?

David: I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I have made it my mission to help business owners get out of the day to day operations of their business. It's something that I struggled with for a really long time and I feel like it's a really poorly addressed area. So I've just lent right into that and I try and solve that problem as best as I can.

Allan: Nice. Nice. Well, you do it well.

Let's kick off with a story that many people may not know. It's from your early days. You sold the MCG. So, and for non Australians, MCG stands for Melbourne Cricket Ground, which is [00:02:00] kind of Australia's equivalent I guess if we were to compare it to an American stadium, maybe I don't know, Madison Square Gardens or I don't know, Yankee Stadium or something like that.

One of the big stadiums. So the MCG in Australia is it's probably the biggest sporting stadium in Australia. And you sold it.

David: Yeah.

Allan: tell us the story.

David: Well, it started off reading a book, The One Minute Millionaire, which I remember reading it at the time. And there's this story in there about Paul Hartunian, who sold the Brooklyn Bridge, and I thought, oh, that's a really interesting idea. He was watching some interview with someone who was doing the demolition on the Brooklyn Bridge, and he wrote down the phone number from the demolition company and called up and said, oh, can you deliver all of that discarded material to my place?

And then he ended up writing a press release and the rest is history. But I read that story in that book and then I was driving past the MCG [00:03:00] and there was a huge gaping hole in one side of it as they were reworking the Pondsford stand and it felt like fireworks just went off in my brain. I was just like, here's the opportunity of a lifetime.

I could just copy exactly what Paul Hartunian did. And I remember At first, I went to the wreckers and I got my hands on a bunch of bricks. And I didn't quite think it through, imagining I was going to chop up these bricks or send out bricks, which would have been terrible for postage. But when I got there, the guy said, You should go visit Wheel in the Wreckers.

They've got discarded pieces of carpet and the green wooden seating which was very iconically the MCG. Everybody knew these green wooden seats. I went to Wheel in the Wreckers, got my hands on a bunch of the material, loaded up a van, took it back to my dad's place, chopped it up into little pieces, [00:04:00] wrote out a press release, Melbourne Man sells the MCG for $24.95 and then I ran, it was almost like an advertorial, they had a, Free magazine that they would give out on the trains for a while there, and I ran this ad that looked like an article saying the Melbourne man sells the MCG for 24. 95, and then it got picked up by the Herald Sun and Nova Radio, and the Today Show did a story on it, and basically I worked my way through this big And pile of discarded stuff, selling it, everything from 24.

95, which was just a skinny little piece of wood stuck to some certificate paper, all the way up to these impressive frames with the NCC carpet, which is the Melbourne Cricket Club carpet, stuck in this big frame. it was a magical experience. It happened just as I finished school, so I kind of feel like that was my [00:05:00] baptism into the entrepreneurial world.

Allan: Nice, nice. Well, very, very innovative. Uh, It's a cool story. So, um, it's something that you can always have on your CV. You sold the MCG.

So switching gears you and I go for walks pretty regularly. One of the things that we've been chatting about lately. So you've got essentially two businesses.

They're definitely complimentary. So there's Systemology, which is a very similar business to lean marketing. You've got a book, you've got courses, you've got training and certification and all of those sorts of things. You're. You know, you're focused on systems, I'm focused on marketing, but essentially they're very similar businesses.

But then you've got this separate business called System Hub, which is essentially a software as a service business, a SaaS business. And one of the things that we've been chatting about, should you you know, you've got a long legacy of, code that's been written and you've got some a lot of clients that use that software as well.

And the discussion has [00:06:00] been, should you divest that and just focus on systemology, focus on just one thing. Should you invest a lot of money, a lot of capital, a lot of time into rebuilding system hub and, you know, bringing in AI features and recoding that and all of that, getting rid of some of the, you know, technical debt, but then you're kind of got your focus in multiple directions.

And SaaS is a very different business to the kind of business that you and I run with systemology and lean marketing.

What's been some of your thinking around what to do and how did you come to that decision? Because it's something that I think about all the time is how do I avoid distraction and how do I avoid the next bright, shiny thing?

Hey, I've got an idea for an app or I've got an idea for another business and so on. How did you think about that?

David: Yeah. There's a few thoughts that help to guide my decision. I suppose the big news is I'm now going to be biased in the response that I give you because we've now decided to go ahead and rebuild System Hub and I've pulled the [00:07:00] trigger on that and doubling down on that piece. The way that I think about it, One was, you know, taking maybe some influence from Robert Kiyosaki.

He actually came out with his board game first, and then he wrote the book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, to sell the board game. And to a certain extent, System Hub, the software, got developed first, and Systemology was developed to help people. sell the software because it teaches people the steps that it takes. So it helps them to consume the product, which then gets them to go further and further into it, which then helps with stick rate.

And then they kind of stick around longer and have a longer lifetime value. I think in the SaaS world, which is hyper competitive and you're going up against big VC companies that know this game inside and out. There's certain things that they do and they have deep pockets that I can't necessarily compete on, but I can [00:08:00] see systemology as our 11 herbs and secret spices that they can't really replicate, that people get attracted in.

And then I have raving fans, like we have clients that just absolutely obsess over the work that we do and the results that it gets. And I, think I did think about separating it. I did think about. you know, what it does for focus. And there's definitely some pros and cons there. I mean, the other thing that sticks around in my head is like an Apple versus a Microsoft discussion, where Apple loves to own the entire ecosystem from end to end, which means they can really control that experience.

Equally, when it comes to systems and process, the software is a part of it. The community is a part of it. The training is a part of it. And my original vision for the business was and it's slightly changed, but the original vision was I would love to create a machine that I could [00:09:00] tip an unorganized, unsystematic, chaotic business at one end, and then out the other end, a finely oiled machine, well systemized shoots out the other.

So that was my original vision. Vision, which really means I kinda need to control more of that end to end experience.

Allan: I love that. So, are you going to run them as separate teams or are you going to share resources across teams? How are you thinking about that?

David: Yeah, the The deeper we get, the more that the teams are just getting meshed closer and closer together, with the exception of probably the software side of things, and the software team, while they're not necessarily fully across all the systemology side of things, but I think focusing on, leaning in a lot more into client success, and thinking about, When the client comes on board, what do they need next?

How do we monitor their [00:10:00] engagement? I mean, your team's great at providing some inspiration for us, and we learn so much from Lean Marketing and the work that you do. You know, having a, chat with Anna um, she was talking about how you monitor engagement and clients and see what they're up to and make sure that they're moving in the right direction and think about what their goals are and how do you get them to the next step.

And taking a leaf out of that book, really investing heavily into the client's success means that I think we need to be monitoring what they're doing in the software, how they're consuming some of the training and make sure that they're on the path and they're staying on the path. Because I know if they do that, they'll get the outcome that they came for.

Like, systems and processes guarantees that. Where people get lost is they fall off the track and then they kind of forget about it and then oftentimes that does more harm than good, to be honest.

Allan: Yeah. So I know you've got no intention right now of exiting [00:11:00] either of those businesses or whatever you're heavily invested in both, you're investing a lot in both, but. The time will come one day when maybe you want to move on to a bigger opportunity, you want to sell, or you've got, you're tired of it or whatever, would you sell them separately like the SaaS business and or the systemology, or would, do you see them just getting more and more enmeshed and just being one thing?

David: My, if I was to answer straight away, I would say, Meshed together because systemology is a little bit of a competitive advantage and it's a great way to acquire leads for the SaaS business and something that I think, but I'd really need an acquirer who understood that strategic value and then would pay for it.

Sometimes, the acquirer might just go, Hey, I buy SaaS companies, show me your SaaS numbers, and I'm going to value your business based on this. And I think some of the value is lost by separating them. I don't exactly know what the exit is, but I [00:12:00] know when I build businesses, I build them in an attractive way that someone would want to buy them.

Whether we sell it or not, cause I just know businesses that are well systemized and don't have key person dependency, they're just worth more. and they deliver better outcomes for the clients. For me, they're more profitable. Like it just ticks a lot of boxes. So I'll keep building in that direction.

And then when an opportunity presents itself, I mean, never say never. It's not something that I'm looking for right

Allan: of course. Okay.

so moving on from that, what are your next projects? What are you working on? I know, I think you're working on another book. what are some of the next, next steps for you?

David: the book's a big one. I mean, I've had a couple of big insights around, you know, What I think is a really big leverage point in building a systems culture, which is around having a systems champion. It's just someone who's not the business owner who holds that role. So that's a big part [00:13:00] of the work that I do these days.

But I mean, also I've seen huge disruptive technology with AI right now, and I know it's grabbing everybody's attention. It's hard to know exactly where that's going to land, where the money is. I know huge amounts of, Money is being invested into the space, but just like the early days of the internet, you know, that bubble's going to burst, a bunch of companies aren't going to make it, and then from the ashes rise the, those that can leverage that.

So I'm, I'm mindful of that, and I think the whole AI space is, Interesting for process because at least when it comes to documentation, well, that's completely being changed now. Like AI can document process from a video like that. So that whole way of people documenting has changed. And then the question beyond that is the value of those documented systems.

What are they? And Are the machines just going to be doing those tasks anyway? Like a lot of what you [00:14:00] document in systems and processes are administrative tasks and a lot of administrative tasks will just go to So what I'm starting to realize is that the process is actually the programming for the machines, which means there's never been a more important time to get very clear on what your core essential tasks are within your business, so that it can be handed off to the machines or parts of it to the machine.

So I'm doing a lot of thinking in that space, especially as we rebuild the system hub software, because Again, it's just going in all different directions, so it's hard to know exactly where it will land, but I do know that AI is not going anywhere. So I also need to integrate that into the book, the Systems Champion book.

I think the Systems Champion is really a great book. A systems and AI champion, because person who understands [00:15:00] process and the core tasks that are going on in the business is probably the ideal person to then spot AI opportunities and to be able to rewrite process with AI in mind. And I mean, a lot of process is all about delegating down to typically less skilled, lower cost team members.

So, robots. Or robots, which is, you know, probably more skilled, but still lower cost. So it's about moving those tasks down to free up the highest valued team members to work on the highest value tasks.

Allan: Yeah, in lean marketing I, sort of describe systems basically look as a series of steps or checklists. Some of those checklists are going to be done by machine. Some of those are going to be done by man, some by a combination of both. And obviously with AI and automation and all of that, that will move more from man to machine over time.

But really the, I mean, there's a lot of [00:16:00] buzz around AI and all of that. And. Yeah, rightly so, it's very disruptive, but I think the people who will do best with it are people who can clearly state problems, so, and questions and put things in a logical way, because there's that phrase that really your results will be determined by the quality of your questions.

So, pretty much the same applies to AI, especially large language models is the quality of your input will determine a lot of the quality of your output. I 100 percent agree that I think of AI now very much like the internet was in 1999 or early 2000s. We knew it was going to be a big deal. We didn't really know exactly.

What it would mean for, everything. We sort of had some early ideas. Some were really dumb, some were really good. There was a lot of companies that failed a lot of companies that some that succeeded. but I think like the early internet, I think it's going to take 10 to 15 years to really roll out into everything where it's no [00:17:00] longer just a a fad, but where it's tightly integrated into various sorts of things.

, you and I have been chatting lately about You know, bigger picture stuff other than business and other than what we're doing. So how do you think about like, we're in our mid forties you're, you're, I mean,

David: Early forties. Hmm.

Allan: They're about, you know, so, We're doing pretty well business wise, and there's always that question of where to calibrate. Do you do more stuff? Do you work 80 hours a week? Do you maximize for revenue? All of that sort of thing. Versus do you take a little bit easy?

Do you just enjoy life? All of that sort of thing. have you got to and what does your schedule look like?

David: A big part for me, look, I'd, if I was single and, I had all the time to, in the world, to focus on business. I would probably go all in on [00:18:00] that. I'm pretty focused. I'm pretty driven. I'm a little bit obsessive compulsive. And maybe that was in my teens. Like I remember burning the candle at both ends, working seven days a week, ridiculous hours.

As I've matured, I've started to put in almost like positive constraints that cause me or force me to have the balance that I need. So things like having kids and having a wife and putting these extra demands on me from like, I know family's important for me. So by putting that into place. I have to be there and I want to be a present dad.

So having basketball on Saturdays to go watch the kids that forces me to take that action. Equally, you know, my wife's highest value is family. So we're always sitting down and having dinner together as a family and she's booking [00:19:00] weekends away where we'll go and spend some time together. So it's, it's, That forces that to happen.

So I often look for those positive constraints. I even look for them in business when I want to write a book. I'll often run a workshop with 50 people in the room where I know I'm effectively delivering the content for that book because I then have to show up and get it done. So in the different areas, like that's maybe family, business, I can just naturally do.

I think probably health is the other big one. that's why I love going for the walks with you. I mean, it'd be very easy if you weren't in the area for me to go, well, I'm not going to go for that. Sunday morning walk. Your, you know, we'll text each other. All right. Yep. Let's make it done. And I love ticking two boxes at once.

We get to talk business and we get to do the health bucket as well. So I look for those things. Also where I can stack [00:20:00] things on top of each other. That's the best when

Allan: And therapy.

David: Yeah, that's right. So I'm not sure who should be paying who for this walk, but I equally get the therapy of uh, yeah, just having someone that I can chat with who, Equally thinks about business at the same level and has, a lot of interesting thoughts to challenge mine.

I

Allan: uh, Tattoo or at least the one that's PG

uh,

David: don't know if you can see it just there, but it's, yeah, D, DTGW. That one was after a series of events that happened in the family where it stands for drink the good wine, and yes, drink the good wine. Yeah, it's so I just got it on my forum. I've never really been a big tattoo person, but I thought putting something [00:21:00] prominently right there will get me to think about it.

every single day, you know, when I'm having a shower, when I'm just sitting here to drink the good wine. And the idea is like we had a couple of family members, I got this one tattooed just recently after my wife's twin brother passed away. And in the family, we had this saying of drink the good wine that surfaced for a couple of different reasons.

I remember we were down at Point Leo Estate and we were having dinner. It was the last meal we were having with Rodney and he's a chef in my wife's family. There's a couple of chefs so they enjoy good food and good wine and we were all together at that meal and I remember He, Rodney, was ordering the wine, and uh, he was looking at the menu, and he told the guy what wine he wants, and we were all sitting there, and they wheel out this trolley, and they take all of our glasses [00:22:00] away, and they replace them with these big glasses.

big fancy glasses and they're opening the wine and we thought, well this is a little bit strange, we didn't give too much thought to it, but we're a good few bottles deep towards the end of the meal and then the receipt came out at the end. And the price for that meal was probably about 5x more than anyone was expecting and Rodney swore black and blue that it was a 60 bottle of wine when it was not a 60 bottle of wine, and we should have probably paid.

got the cues when they wheeled out the trolley and took away all the glasses and gave us the fancy glasses. But we look back on that night with really fond memories of, well, that was the night we really drank the good wine and it's just become a bit of a story and there's, you know, there's another part to that story for Carolyn's.

Dad also and we just talk about it like just [00:23:00] recently round the corner. We had a lady just last week. She's early 40s She was perfectly fine about 12 months ago. She got diagnosed with cancer It was in stage three. Everybody thought there's plenty of time and you know She was getting treatment and working on it.

And then she literally just passed away And she's got two kids Two young twin boys and a loving husband and makes you go, wow, life you don't know what it's going to throw at you. You need to make sure that you drink the good wine now because you might not get an opportunity to drink it down the line.

The part two to that one. So Carolyn's dad had a diplomat who lived next door to them who collected a bunch of really fancy wines. Actually, it was a friend of a diplomat that [00:24:00] had, you know, Charles and Diana's wedding wines and all of these things that had been gifted over his career and he ended up passing away.

And then he gifted the collection to Charlie's neighbor. And then over the course of a few months, they drank through this extravagant wine collection, literally standing in the backyard, knocking down a pailing fence having the bottle, passing it through the pailing and over the course of three months drank through the wine collection because Charlie said, I don't want to die, not knowing what the good wine tastes like.

So again, we had a couple of stories in the family and I thought, okay, maybe this is, The universe telling me it's time to, to get a tattoo.

Allan: So yeah, you're storing up your wine and then you'd never get to drink it. Right.

David: Yeah, what's the point? Yeah.

Allan: Yeah. So, and I mean, uh, I've had similar experiences where, I've had a family member die about a year ago, and then, you know, I've had You know, we're cleaning out her apartment and, you [00:25:00] know, stuff that people had saved up for years and years and years is just being tossed in the trash not too long after you pass, so, um, yeah, make use of it.

Drink the good

David: Yeah, that's it.

Allan: All right. So, let's get into a segment that I call Drunk Business Ideas. So, it's mainly I don't know if they're bad business ideas, but they're business ideas I just got to get out of my system because otherwise I'll go and start new businesses, which I really shouldn't because as we talked about before, focus is really important.

I need an outlet. So I usually, I have a notion document where I just put in all the business ideas. I have good, bad, and ugly. And then I share them with my therapist, Dave. So, um,

David: There is one that I need an update on because I've been waiting to know what happened with this drunk business

Allan: All right.

David: You had the idea of these placebo pills. Can you tell us a little bit about that

Allan: That's a secret project, mate.

David: Are you still working on [00:26:00] it?

Allan: I think I'm going to do this, honestly, like, where it's essentially um, just pills that are placebo and we literally write placebo on the bottle because placebos are Work right there, . you could take this pill for anything. it'll have no active ingredient.

It'll be, you know, gluten-free wheat free, whatever, dairy free, all of that sort of thing. You can just take it I think that'll be a sensation. So, I'm gonna

David: I might be your first investor. I like it.

Allan: Well, you know, we know that placebos work, so it's gonna work, right? And a placebo apparently even works, even when you know it's a placebo. So if I say, here, Dave, take this placebo for your cough you'll feel better.

David: Yeah, I love it. It works 100 percent of the time. Don't tell me, have you been holding out on me with more of these drunk business ideas? Do you have a couple more up your sleeve?

Allan: to, I'm going to cover a few of these and feel free to jump in with any one, any of yours as well. But This is straight off [00:27:00] my drunk business ideas list. And by the way, we don't, not necessarily encouraging drinking or getting drunk. In fact, I don't drink at all.

So, but the, in the spirit of drunk business ideas. So the first one uh, um, is, you know, I was traveling a lot. I've been into a lot recently and so a lot of airplanes, a lot of hotels, and then even when you stay in fancy hotels, there's a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense. Like someone hasn't thought through the experience.

And so I thought there needs to be a real life UX, you know, user interface kind of, testing and, you know, reporting and fixing. software, that's a whole role. Someone whose role is to make sure that the user interface works really well. It's really intuitive. It's really easy to use.

It's really easy to understand what the next step is. And someone doesn't have to read this big, long manual. So it's simple as, you know, you walk into a hotel the, the soap dispenses. You know, far away from the sink or whatever, or there's a bunch of crap that you've kind of got to move out the way, or there's [00:28:00] nowhere to really put your suitcase properly, it falls over or whatever.

I thought there should be a real life UX user interface consultancy. I don't know, maybe there is, I mean, some of this stuff maybe it exists, but not that I'm aware of.

David: That's such a good idea. I think I could bolt that onto systemology. That's optimization right there. I love it. That's, yeah, having a look at the existing process and going, You know what? That's a crap step. Let's move the soap right next to the sink. There's so many things like that in life, when you're just like, if someone stopped for a moment, and thought about this.

It's obvious, but yeah, I, that life is full of those. I find them exceedingly frustrating. So I, I think I would subscribe to that.

Allan: Okay. All right. So you think that's got legs. Um, And I think all sorts of places in cars where there are button is where whatever remotes that have always a hundred buttons or whatever, there's so many places in the real [00:29:00] world where there could be so much better, you know, user interaction.

So, uh,

David: like these drunk business ideas, you're basically trying to get your first customer. So I'll say, I'll buy this one. So I've subscribed. I am your first customer for this business.

Allan: all right done. So it's a thumbs up from Dave on IRL UX consulting. All right. I love it. All right. Here's my next one. This one I have been wanting forever and it would have to be done by someone like a Google or an Apple or an Amazon or something like that. I don't think a small SaaS company could do this.

It's like a centralized database. So There's a thing called single sign on where like you can log into various apps using either your Google account or using your Microsoft account or whatever. Right. So that covers kind of your stuff, but then the database that holds all your customer info, that's kind of, isolated in the different apps, like HubSpot's got its own database.

My Google Contacts has got its own [00:30:00] database. You know, if I'm using a help desk system, it's got its own database and all of that sort of thing. I thought there should be a centralized database that can be called via API that can be used by any app. So let's say you migrate from HubSpot to Salesforce.

All your users are still in the same database hosted in the cloud or whatever. And you're just changing front end. Systems, right? Or, you bought a help desk app instead of replicating the database. Now you've got to replicate the data. It just goes, it just does an API call to your central database and works centrally that way.

David: There's definitely legs in that. I think it would completely turn the whole SaaS model on its head. and you'd need this standard that everybody would buy into. But we've all had that pain of moving different software or trying to use Zapier to connect between databases. It makes sense to have a central database that you own and everything else [00:31:00] plugs into it.

And then that way you, I think, You know, part of the reason why a lot of SaaS wouldn't like that is they like the idea of you being all in on their software and the pain of disconnect is high and but what a, a great idea. I think that would just streamline everything and cause people to be better.

Like SaaS companies would need to ensure that they're adding value. Otherwise you'll just unplug and go somewhere else.

Allan: yeah, definitely. I agree with the lock in, but I think, imagine how much value it would unlock well, you'd still have lock in because you'd have your automations, you'd have all your other stuff, whatever, but it's just, it's essentially doing what single sign on did for your staff. So your, all your staff can single sign on into your help desk, into your Slack, into your, you know, Microsoft systems and all of that.

and you've got a single place where you add a user, remove a user, [00:32:00] change passwords, all of that. So essentially single sign on, but for the customer side of things. So you don't have this replicated customer list and you've got to use all these Zapier and API connections and all of that sort of stuff that just creates so much kludge.

David: I'm going through this pain right now. Again, following in Lean Marketing's footsteps, whenever I see Allan do something from a marketing perspective, I go, okay, he's already thought about it. I'll just do what Allan does. So we've now moved to HubSpot and it's the pain of moving platforms. It's real and it can be slow.

And I mean, having a centralized location where everything to do with a customer record is in one place, because that was the other problem. Before, you know, we were using intercom and active campaign and that meant our operations team and then the sales team were using pipe drive. So we didn't have a centralized record where Operations, [00:33:00] Marketing and Sales could all see how have we been communicating with this one client to make sure no one's stepping on toes or over communicating or all of these challenges.

So the reason that we moved to HubSpot is for what you're talking about, but even still we're now locked into the HubSpot ecosystem. I think having that external and then being able to plug multiple things in.

Allan: and not even so much for switching. I mean, yes, it might make switching a little bit easier, but it's for integration. Like now integration is such a pain in the ass, like just to get things integrated and syncing and all of that. And then you're syncing it and you've got two sets or three sets of the same data.

So, all right,

David: Yeah. All right. Second one I'll subscribe to. So you, yeah, look, are actually pretty good. Well, I think we might need to get you drunk more often by the sound of things. If these are the ideas

Allan: maybe we'll be drinking the good wine at Dave's place.

All right, here's my next one.

You know, there's the YouTube silver award. [00:34:00] Like all the YouTubers. You get that little trophy and everyone's got it in the background or whatever in the marketing space.

And in fact, really almost in any space. I mean, you could do it in business system space, whatever, but in the marketing space, kind of the proxy for that is the ClickFunnels two comma club thing that Russell Brunson and ClickFunnels have created and all of that. And so you essentially, very smart.

I mean, you've got to be using ClickFunnels to get that and use their payment system and all of that sort of thing. But I think there should be a marketing award and really you could do this in almost every industry, an award. you could create the business systems champion award or whatever, something that someone can show proudly that they've achieved some particular milestone.

So two common club, I think for. Clickfunnels is like when you've made a million dollars worth of sales through their marketing funnels or whatever. and essentially a marketing award that you would give out. And I think they've turned that into its own side business as well, where they charge you for doing that.

They charge [00:35:00] you for the trophy and the certification of it and all of that.

David: I think when paired with some sort of industry association, I think that couples really well. Cause it, then it feels also, less of a commercial intent. Like, you know, this is the association of lean marketers or again, and you've recently rebranded to lean marketing, which I think lends itself more to something like that award would work better because it can sound like It is the industry association and it's got a level of prestige.

Whereas I know the previous Successwise, it might not have had the same thing, but I think there's definitely something in associations. People don't generally think there is a commercial intent behind associations. So, and it's there to serve whatever community they're there to serve. So it's, [00:36:00] It builds up trust quicker, and then rolling into that, I think having an association feed into a commercial company is a great strategy.

Allan: Well, it's been done forever in entertainment. There's Grammy Awards and then there's Academy Awards and all of that sort of thing. So, starting to bring some of those, I mean, sort of, there's been like the uh, Inc. 5000 lists and all of that, but that's sort of like a general business one, but I think specific ones a marketing award for reaching some particular milestone or whatever.

And yeah, so something to

David: I'm

Allan: you, you reckon you, you think starting out with the industry association would be the way to do that?

David: I think so, like, because you want to build up some sort of Prestige, depending on the size of your audience. I mean, you can see inside companies. There are other ones. I remember like Dan Kennedy used to have one. I think they, maybe it was related with Russell Brunson, but they have [00:37:00] like a marketer of the year.

I've seen that a few times, but it's just one prize that they give out for the year, as opposed to an award. I think awards or levels, like people love to feel like, They're a part of something. People love to feel like they're working their way towards something, and they're on a particular mission. Like, that's what I love about the YouTube one, is they've got the different levels.

Like, you've got the silver, and the gold, and the diamond, and it's part of a journey, and you feel like you're part of some elite club, and the higher up the chain you go. And it just incentivizes taking the action that they want, which is in YouTube, like it's this flywheel effect, because the creator wants to get more subscribers.

They want to get more views so they can work up and get this little trophy that is great for YouTube because now they're getting higher quality, more eyeballs, which ultimately means they make more [00:38:00] money anyway, because that's what YouTube's game is, getting the eyeballs. So I think, I mean, it's really intelligent where you can link it into someone becoming more invested into your products and services.

Like I'm wondering, you know, maybe there's stages, you know, in certain awards to keep them on the path to higher consumption and becoming more and more of a raving fan.

Allan: The silver marketer award, the gold marketer award. I like that. Yeah. Sorry. All

David: If you do launch this one and some of my ideas contributed, do I get paid? some part of revenue share or equity or

Allan: get some part of it, but I don't think you're going to like how much of it.

David: maybe I get the first award. I'll get the first lead marketing award.

Allan: We'll give you an innovation award, a silver innovation award. All right. I've got my next one.

I've been trying to, Become a better speaker. So I speak on stage, I get invited on podcasts, So I [00:39:00] started going down the track of speaker training and I've worked with coaches and all of that.

So my first attempt at it was I attended Toastmasters because, you know, I heard Toastmasters is where you learn to speak and all of that. And I don't know, I didn't, it looked very dated. It felt like a bit of a waste of time. They weren't really, people who were actually speaking on stage a lot there from what I could tell.

Like I said, I only attended one or two meetings and I didn't really like it. And I thought something like a modern Toastmasters. So what I've been doing to improve my speaking. So I started working with a coach around stagecraft, like how to have my presence on stage, how much to move, how, you know, what to do with my hands, all of that sort of thing.

Then I worked with some, someone else on storytelling. So this guy is a storytelling expert. And so I've got some really good ideas from them. And then I was at this author retreat and I was talking to Todd Herman about wanting to become an even better speaker. And he said, you should go to [00:40:00] improv class.

And I've been going to improv class for the last four weeks. really, really, Really cool. You know, initially I pulled up, it was a rainy, cold night and I thought, What in the hell am I doing here? I should just go home. But I thought I'm already here, whatever. It's probably going to be lame, but I'll try it out.

I've really enjoyed it. It feels like really exercising your mind. You got to think of stuff right, right on the spot. So I've been going weekly to improv class, but and so all of those have been really good experiences, but I'm like, what could be a modern. Toastmasters, where you'd get all of that in one package where you'd learn stagecraft, you'd learn storytelling, you'd learn a bit of improv thinking on your feet right there and do that.

So that's my next drunk business idea. How did you, I mean, you're an excellent speaker. what did you do other than practice?

David: I did go to a little training. This is going back 25 years ago. I remember it was above a shop in Toorak and I went, it was like maybe a three month course and they taught us various techniques. But [00:41:00] equally, like you said, I, even though I picked up some great skills from it the experience wasn't that great and the execution.

And I think there probably is some space there. I've. been along to Toastmasters once or twice and it didn't quite connect with me, but it clearly got some demand. I mean, it's stood the test of time, it's been around for ages, there's actually a lot of people who cite it and go to it so the demand's there.

I'd be interested to know who are the people going to Toastmasters

Allan: wonder if the quality varies by chapter or location or whatever, maybe it was just a crappy. chapter in our location. I don't know. Yeah.

David: the audience for your improved Toastmasters? Are we thinking specifically like business owners, or are we thinking anybody who wants to learn to speak better?

Allan: I think there's probably two or three situations where you want to learn to speak better. You want to [00:42:00] improve your career. You want to speak from stage professionally or semi professionally, or you want to be better in a digital sort of environment. So now more and more, I think, even the digital version is getting more important.

Like, you know, how do you deal with microphones? How do you look at camera? Like one of the things that I've noticed from some of my video podcasts is my eyes are moving left and right, which is kind of a little bit distracting. So I've got to make sure that I'm looking straight at the camera. I'm using how to use a teleprompter.

So I use a teleprompter now so that I can look the person in the eyes and all of that sort of thing. So. just something that can teach you basic showing up on stage, whether it's virtually or in person, but especially in person. I think that would be really cool. So like I said, there is definitely speaker training out there, but they seem to specialize in one or two separate elements.

I went to VIN Yang's speaker training. It was like a two day speaker. Training [00:43:00] was really the information was really excellent, but the class size was quite big, so you only got a very small amount of time on stage. That was my only criticism of it. So it's something where you need to be on stage and have a bit of an audience where, so I think that's what.

the value of Toastmasters is you're in front of actual people, right? In a low risk environment.

David: I'm. less likely to subscribe to this drunk business

Allan: Okay. All right.

David: think it's got some legs in there. I'm just like, how do you monetize it? Look, I could probably imagine a lean Toastmasters course where Allan Dib teaches all of these things, but I'm imagining setting up one of these, Communities, which I don't know how they run or if they make money.

I don't know if, is Toastmasters for profit or not for profit? I

Allan: sure. I don't think it's for profit. I think it's one of those things where they, I don't know, or maybe it

David: and if it's not for profit, I don't think it's for Allan Dib. Allan Dib, that's for profit.[00:44:00]

Allan: you're really touching my heart now.

Well, well, there's a few organizations that are sort of businessy organizations that. have really stood the test of time, but they're feeling really old now. Like, like Toastmasters comes to mind. The other one that comes to mind is B& I. Um, So these are ones that are almost, like a little bit culty to some extent.

Like There's like the recurring element, there's, you know, a whole rituals and all of that sort of thing. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe the

David: if you could, Get Toastmasters or B& I on a fire sale. Maybe, I don't know if and then you would revamp it, breathe some new life into it. I reckon that, but yeah, the whole legacy be very hard to recreate. I think it's needed, but I think it'd be really hard to kind of create and get that off the ground to significant, have enough momentum.

Allan: right. [00:45:00] Okay. So we've got a thumbs down from Dave on that one. Okay. Fair.

All right. I got two more that are a little bit of left of center.

next one is a secular church. Like I've been fascinated with the rise of secular spirituality. So people have either left church or they can't be bothered with they don't believe in the doctrine and all of that sort of thing.

And it's kind of like that the importance of, they call it the third place. So, you know, there used to be your, your work, your home, and then there was this third place where you'd get community, fellowship with people, all of that sort of thing. And it's been scientifically proven that participating in rituals, increasing your community um, singing songs together and all of that sort of thing, is literally good for your health, you know, and it's something that helps you live longer, live more healthily and all of that.

And so, thinking about what would be a modern take on this, where if you didn't want to be involved in the whole religious doctrine and all of that sort of thing, where you [00:46:00] could have similar experiences, where you could have Similar, you could have rituals, you could sing songs together, you could have community and fellowship, you have some shared values.

I think to some extent, concerts are that, you know, like I recently went to an Iron Maiden concert so I've been to the Prince concert before he, he died um, U2 concerts, like there, there is that element to it, I think. Tony Robbins had a little bit of, I went to Tony Robbins a couple of years ago and that did have a little bit of that element, but those things are kind of one offs.

what's a secular church that we could set up that runs every Sunday, Reverend Jennings Reverend Dave Jennings.

David: I'm glad you asked this question, Allan. I've got experience in uh, cults. No I'm curious. Is there anything at the moment that ticks this bucket for you? Like, how are you If that's a bucket that needs to be filled, do you have

Allan: Sunday morning walks, buddy. Like, [00:47:00] uh, no, there isn't. that's why I'm bringing it up. Like I don't think there's anything like there's, w there's one offs like conferences. There's like, like I mentioned, concerts, Tony Robbins, all of that. But yeah, so I think

uh,

David: The closest thing I get, but it's still different is with, I trained Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and that I meet three times a week. There's a similar group. Oftentimes there's not a huge amount of talk. Like, I mean, we'll chat a little bit at the start. Yeah. And then it's pretty much like wrestling and trying to tap people and choke people and stuff like that.

So it, it gives me a little bit of that. We do it together and it's community, but it's still it's not singing. It's not And you're right, maybe there's once off activities, I've got a couple of mates who every year they'll do a ride down at Tassie, and we'll go down for a weekend, but it's not, that's not going to fill that bucket enough, because it's so [00:48:00] infrequent.

So,

Allan: So Dave beating people up and choking them is the spiritual experience.

David: Allan. Yeah,

Allan: it. and I mean, there's no higher margin business than a church tax free, you know, I mean, there's a, there's a lot of,

David: a lot of upside. I think.

Allan: the other thing that's probably close is I know that, but that's still like essentially a normal church, but the mega churches, right? So they've got rock bands and singing and all of that still not essentially I think would fall more into the normal religion category, I guess.

David: release this episode uncut can we ask the audience if there's anyone that would join the Lean Marketing Religion with Reverend David? Like, just reply in the comments if you're if you would join this particular secular church.

Allan: right. Okay. Well, I've been following a few people on [00:49:00] TikTok that talk about secular spirituality, right? So where it's essentially, you're not following someone's dogma or religion or whatever, but you're still experiencing some some of that stuff, but it does, there's nothing organized, you know? So yeah.

David: But the experience that I had, and I don't know if we, if this isn't maybe for episode number two. Because there's a lot to be learned from my experience in the world of Scientology. I'm not a Scientologist however, that is a cult that has built up a, yes there's a lot to be learned from that, and they are very good marketers.

They're actually their publicity's a bit average now that YouTube's online and everybody talks about it, but There's probably elements we could draw, Allan, from different cults to create our own one here to make it really sticky.

Allan: I like the ring of the Reverend Dave Jennings, you know, I

David: Yeah, I

Allan: it works.

David: might add that to my email signature.[00:50:00]

Allan: All right, well, we'll put that in the maybe pile and needs a little bit more work there. All right. My final one I'm calling this man school. My dad passed away a few years ago. I loved him to death, but he wasn't a very strong male role model.

It was pretty timid. It was pretty quiet. It was pretty reserved, all of that sort of thing. So, What are the skills that a man needs to have, like, for example, you know, being strong body wise being able to speak really well learning how to fight, you know, defending yourself or defending your family or whatever, how do you behave in relationships, all of that sort of thing.

So, I think most. Men are learning this stuff the hard way, trying to fudge their way in the dark, trying to learn through all of that sort of stuff. So what are the skills, and you know, I'm talking from the perspective of a man because that's the only perspective I've ever had. I'm sure there'd be similar stuff with women, but I find women are [00:51:00] much more kind of community.

They'll pass like secrets to each other and help each other and all of that. But I think men tend to be more like lone wolves. I don't know if that's my imagination or not. What do you think? Yeah,

David: have had the opportunity, kids, to try and be more conscious of playing that role for my boys, because it's equally like my dad. I feel like a lot of those skills you know, he's, he's quite quiet. He was a systems engineer. But there's a lot of things that from, you know, Manhood, like camping or, I don't know, catching a fish and, you know, those types of, I'm trying to think of other things, wrestling a bear.

I don't know. I didn't get that direction from him. And I think the world needs this. I kind of feel like young men need this. Need some strong direction. I feel like we've, the pendulum has [00:52:00] swung really far to one side now. And I think we need some good strong men to kind of step up and lead our culture and society.

And I'm trying to think of the experiences. I have come across one or two groups, you could probably merge this drunk idea with your secular church one. Like there might be something where there's, you can tick that community bucket and uh, you know, tick the, the manhood bucket.

Then maybe there's something in that merging the two ideas.

Allan: just, I mean, I'll give you a couple of examples from my own life. Like I'm you know, I don't know, for whatever reason I was thinking the other day, what would I do in the event of a home invasion? And so I'm looking up YouTube videos is talking about, you use this, don't use a big long baseball bat because there's nowhere to swing it and all of this sort of stuff.

And I'm like, you know, basic like self defense without having to spend seven years learning martial arts. Like what are the five or 10 moves that you would need in [00:53:00] a. In an emergency situation to get yourself out or get your family out or whatever, that sort of thing what do you do with your money instead of gambling on stupid shit coins or whatever, you know, put some money away in, you know, a, an investment fund or a high

David: Bitcoin or something like that.

Allan: Something like that.

Something

David: I've also made a mental note now do not break into Allan's house.

Allan: That's it, I'll fuck you up.

But yeah, like self defense, body, money, relationships, all of that sort of stuff. What are the things that you need to know as a man? You need man school.

David: Yeah, look, I think there's something in this Again, I think we could merge this together with the secular church idea. I'm sure there's a class that Reverend Jennings could run and uh,

Allan: alright, I like where this is

David: I'm sure the, the great Mr. Dib uh, yeah, there's a few classes there. You'd probably want maybe a group of instructors because I'm imagining different [00:54:00] people would be strong on different things.

So, I'll give this one a subscribe. I'll be your first subscriber on this one.

Allan: well I was I was chatting to my personal trainer and because he's been, like, the dude is really well built and he used to work as a bouncer and he's done martial arts. And I'm like, dude, give me, gimme three classes on self-defense because you know, so, yeah, there's, I found there's a lot of self-defense classes for women, but I didn't see anything like, you know, for, I guess that'd be similar or the same, I dunno, who knows?

David: Yeah, well, maybe we need to get you in the octagon

Allan: So I'm looking up YouTube videos on how to beat someone's skull in with a miniature baseball bat and pepper spray and all of this sort of stuff. But anyway, the journey continues. I need man school.

David: I love this. This is like a testing ground. I feel like next time I'm going to come with a list of potential drunk business ideas and I'll, I'll need to, see if I can get you to subscribe.

Allan: I love it. I love it. Well, thanks Dave. Appreciate uh, therapy time as always. It's [00:55:00] been good to have you on. We're going to link to all your stuff systemology. com. The book is awesome. Your, all of your stuff is awesome. We highly recommend it. Thanks, man. Any last parting words?

David: I enjoyed this. Yeah. No, I think this is spot on. I think this is just what the world needs.

Allan: Good. Thanks, man. We'll talk to you again soon.

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