Build a High-Converting Quiz Funnel with Maxwell Nee

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Maxwell: one thing is what isn't always present in people's minds is what they want right now. Not everyone wakes up and thinks about their goals and manifests and everything else, right? But if you ask someone What do you not want to have in your life right now?

What people don't want. is often easier to answer. Right. So. In many ways, you can get a really accurate what's the biggest pain in your problem in your life right now answer by focusing on what people don't want compared to what people do want.

And it's a really subtle shift, but it's makes a big difference.

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Allan: Welcome to the Lean Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Allan Dib, andwe explore ways to get bigger results by doing less marketing. Today, I'm super excited because we're going to be talking to Maxwell Nee, and Maxwell is the Chief Revenue Officer at ScoreApp. Now, a lot of you will have heard me talk about ScoreApp as a tool before.

It's a tool that I really love. It's [00:01:00] one that works incredibly well for us. Our best leads come from ScoreApp. And so I asked Maxwell to come on and talk a little bit about ScoreApp, talk about quiz marketing and the whole infrastructure surrounding that. So a little bit of background. Maxwell is an angel investor. He's the chief revenue officer with ScoreApp. He's also a multi award winning entrepreneur, bodybuilder and dancer which is awesome. Welcome Maxwell.

Maxwell: Hey Allan, thanks for having me.

Allan: It's my pleasure, man. Well, look, first of all, mad respect because I've been trying to do improve my body and my physique over the last three years.

And years ago I would have been like, meathead or whatever, but now I see what effort it takes, how hard it is. And I have mad respect for anyone who's done well in that area. So well done there.

Maxwell: Thank you. Yeah, I think it's a part of the entrepreneurial obsession. You obsess with things and then you just go down a rabbit [00:02:00] hole. So I definitely did that with bodybuilding.

Allan: I agree. I heard a quote the other day that said that discipline starts with the body. So, and I highly agree with that. Anyway, we're not here to talk about bodybuilding. Who are you? Why should people listen to you? What have you been doing over the last few years?

Maxwell: Thanks Allan. So, I had a digital marketing agency that I owned when I left corporate, and I used to work at CBA for about five years in corporate, and then that evolved into like a business accelerator business, where instead of selling marketing agency services, we were selling courses. That range from 1, 000 USD, 5, 000 USD, 10, 000 USD.

And we got that business up to about $2 million bucks a year Aussie. And that was a crazy ride, we did that in less than 18 months from zero. And the first three months we made zero money. 0, because we didn't know what we were doing. but I was working crazy hours, working crazy hours.

We needed a [00:03:00] lot of leads. We needed it about 2000 leads per month, just so the business would stay healthy and fresh and as stress free as possible. And then I exited that. Basically exited and sold my shares to my business partners and then just moved more into investing in businesses like ScoreApp

Allan: and so, there are so many people coming to you every day as an investor, like I know myself, I'm not a super active investor, but even with my small profile as an investor I have people every day coming saying, I've got this SaaS product, I've got this AI product, I've got this, whatever of all the opportunities you had why ScoreApp?

Totally.

Maxwell: Oh, good question. So, there's two founders of ScoreApp, Steve Oddie and Daniel Priestley who a lot of people would know. And I'd actually worked with Dan as a client of his a few times before. So there was that warm connection which say what you want. It's 90 percent of the reason why you invest in anything.

Just what's in your inner circle, at your fingertips compared to, are you going to invest something on the [00:04:00] other side of the world that you saw in the newspaper? Right? Less likely. And then, as well as, I try to only do things where I've got an advantage.

So at the time my business coaching business essentially had about a thousand high ticket paying clients and we introduced all of those to ScoreUp. So we helped ScoreUp get to cashflow positive. So first we put it in the investment, of course, then, then we introduced ScoreUp to our business.

our clients and helped it get the cash flow positive, which is obviously a very critical milestone in a tech investment. And those were two really good reasons for me to invest.

Allan: Okay. so ScoreApp for a little bit of background is essentially a quiz tool where it will take someone through a whole series of questions that you create and frame It takes the data from those questions and helps you build like a custom report that you can create.

So, for [00:05:00] example, the way that we use ScoreApp in our team, we have people take a marketing IQ test, which is, Hey, tell us do you have a clear picture of your target market? Do you know your messaging is? all of that sort of thing. And it does a couple of things.

So it builds a custom report where it spits out a PDF that says, great Max, you're really strong in these areas. You're weak in these areas. And so it gives them a customized report, but also importantly, what I love is it gives them a score.

And why that's important is because anytime someone gives you a score, whether it's your cholesterol, whether it's your weight, whether it's whatever, You want to improve that score, right?

So that's kind of like a natural tendency that we all have. And it's giving people a score on their favorite topic, which is themselves. So I think it's super powerful.

Maxwell: Yeah, absolutely.

there's a few extra layers in there that that people don't always catch. So, one of the things that I think really pulls people in [00:06:00] is that we've all got this element of, natural curiosity. We all want to self identify ourselves, right. And there's, we've all got a little bit of competitiveness, right, as well.

But the one that I think really, tickles people that they don't realize is there's a emotional pool of like vanity. Like, like I want to know what mine is and I want to make mine better because I care about, my level.

Allan: Yeah. So it's not only, Hey, I get to know myself better. I get a score, which now I can work on improving, but also the really clever thing is, People have given you a lot of data in the quiz process, right? So now with that data, I can, first of all, collect that in my CRM system, but more importantly, I can personalize future interactions, make them highly relevant, which is really important because, to get a lot of data from someone, Often it feels intrusive.

Like, I don't know if you've ever been on those websites where you want to submit a contact form and it's [00:07:00] asking you for your name, your wife's name, your blood type, your, yeah, every conceivable thing under the sun. And you're like, what in the hell? Like, forget it. Like, whereas. Going through a quiz, there's now a good reason to give up that data and you feel much better about it.

You're like, you're going through and you're like, cool, I'm going to get a score. I'm going to get a personal assessment, all of that. It feels a lot more diagnostic rather than just, a dump of data to some random person on the internet. So I think that's a real key when it comes to building quizzes.

Maxwell: Yeah. you want to see it and it wants to be positioned as problem solving instead of extracting data. And if you think about it, If you think about a sales interaction, like a 45 minute sales call, whether you're selling a car, a house, a marketing platform accounting, personal training or whatever, it's what's in your scorecard in your quiz is simply the first 8 to 10 questions you put in that sales call that [00:08:00] you have in the first sales call.

Yeah. So it just accelerates that for you and your sales team.

Allan: we were a Early ScoreApp user. And one of the things that I think we worked with Glenn and we've touched base with Dan before, but some of the early training that I got from them was, Hey ask very clear questions that have a yes or no.

Like, so rather than asking a question like have you got a clear message dialed in? Well, some people might say, well, yeah, sure I do. Yeah. I've got a clear message. There's no clear yes or no. Whereas they were encouraging me to put in questions like, have you won an award for your business in the past?

Maxwell: super tangible

Allan: Yeah, super tangible. There's a clear yes or no. It's not up to anyone's opinion whether yes, I did, or maybe I didn't, or maybe I've sort of got that or whatever. So I thought that was an interesting tip in terms of building a good solid quiz that actually gives you tangible results.

[00:09:00] What other things strategies like that have you learnt over your time with ScoreApp in terms of what makes a good quiz. So over and above, I mean, ScoreApp is a great tool, love it. But over and above that thinking bigger picture in terms of quizzes, what separates a really good quiz from a bad quiz?

Maxwell: Yeah, so, one thing is what isn't always present in people's minds is what they want right now. So if you ask a question like where do you want to be 12 months from now? Not everyone wakes up and thinks about their goals and manifests and everything else, right? But if you ask someone What do you not want to have in your life right now?

What's really annoying you or really painful thing that you want to delete from your life or your business right now? That's what people don't want. is often easier to answer. Right. They'll say, I don't want to have to wake up at 6am anymore to put this tie on to go to this job.

I don't want to have to deal with admin or accounting my business anymore. I don't [00:10:00] want to have to keep hiring and running through salespeople with my business. I just want someone to stick and stay and pick it up and run with it. So. In many ways, you can get a really accurate what's the biggest pain in your problem in your life right now answer by focusing on what people don't want compared to what people do want.

And it's a really subtle shift, but it's makes a big difference.

Allan: I heard a similar hack in terms of like, if you're with a group of friends and you're trying to decide what should we do for dinner? Like no one wants to say, Oh, let's do Chinese or whatever. And you sort of end up in this indecision zone. Whereas if you say guys, what do we definitely not want?

Okay. We definitely not Japanese tonight or definitely not you know, whatever. So process of elimination. All right, cool. So we're not doing Japanese, we're not doing Arabic food or whatever. How about Mexican or Indian or whatever, right? So, it's a lot easier to kind of eliminate rather than just make a selection often.

So [00:11:00] people often will no's rather than their yes's.

Maxwell: hundred percent.

Allan: I've seen A lot of quizzes go kind of viral, like, I remember years back, there was still is the case, but I think might've been BuzzFeed or whatever, they had quizzes like, what type of dog are you, or whatever. And, people would go through all of these Facebook quizzes and things like that, filling them in.

And And I think the quizzes that did really well had a viral element to them in terms of, Hey, forward this to your friend and find out what type of dog they are, if they were a dog or whatever, or what type of personality or and I've seen even now, this is transitioned to like little apps like for example I think in schools and things like that, there was like a, who has a crush on you or whatever, and then forward this to them and

Maxwell: Oh, wow.

Allan: all of this sort of stuff.

So, powerful. Yeah. I think it's powerful from a human curiosity point of view, because you want to find out more about yourself. You want to find out more [00:12:00] about your friend. And if you can create that network effect where if your friend does the quiz or if your colleague or whatever, now. it's one plus one equals three.

So I think that's a really powerful part of creating like a viral quiz. What's the cleverest sort of implementations that you've seen of quizzes in general? And yeah, I mean, maybe I know your context is mainly in terms of ScoreApp, but what's the way that, that's kind of maybe non obvious that people are implementing this in their business.

Maxwell: Yeah, good question. So, quiz marketing isn't a commonly understood marketing term or strategy or funnel, right? But what's amazing is that we've all done one. And I can promise you've done it either in school or your first sort of five jobs, right? University. And you did it in a personality quiz.

Right, so everyone's done their 16 personalities, Myers Briggs, or some element of a personality assessment, [00:13:00] or an entrepreneurial quiz. And what makes it really fun and engaging for people is, say, let's say, You're at school and everyone writes, what do you want to be when you grow up and then you've got engineer, you've got fireman, you've got policewoman, you've got doctor, you've got whatever, and then under that you have, okay, well, if you want to do this, here are the top three strongest personalities that will win in this field, and then you give everyone A personality quiz for them to work out, okay, where are your strengths and weaknesses, and where could they best be applied, right, because everyone wants to know how they could win more, or where they have an advantage, or where they have a disadvantage.

So, any quiz that points out, like, scientific Strengths and weaknesses is always very compelling, especially if you put it there as a stepping stone towards their goals. So, for example, if you work with a lot of marketing agency owners, it could be, Hey, look, did you know that only, 25% of the population [00:14:00] suit being a marketing agency, business owner.

Find out which, bucket you are in and let me know. I can share with you three things to help you manage your weaknesses so that you can win as a marketing agency, business owner.

Allan: And so other than generating leads or even in generating leads what are the specific implementations that you've seen work really well? either as a lead generator or something that can help in the nurturing process, take someone from who's maybe.

Cold or a little bit warm and move them through to conversion.

Maxwell: Yeah, so, I'll give you some specific examples, like, Jay Shetty is on our website, and he's a very open user, we've got a few podcasts with him, so, he makes videos about, like, happiness, unhappiness, purpose, right? Which are all traditionally very untangible, intangible things, so, For each one of his videos you might see a happiness scorecard as a follow up call to [00:15:00] action for the happiness video, right?

So that 500, 000 views becomes 100, 000 emails. with data, who's in a lot of pain, who might want to do something about it, who's ready to potentially buy something right now to improve their happiness, or to improve their unhappiness, or to improve their lack of purpose or direction, right? So video, podcasts to, actual converted lead is a, it's a really big use case, super, super powerful if you're a creator and, Instagram stories as well, getting people to turn from just like a flicking and scrolling action into actually giving their details to you.

That's a really big pull. And then we've also got people using quizzes for the existing clients, right? So you've got your benchmark of, let's say IQ is 3 when you start and people want to see that as they move through your program, that's increasing to a 5, then a 7, [00:16:00] then hopefully a 10, right, out of 10.

Also, when people are hiring for jobs, right, because when you hire for a job, you can get, even just posting on LinkedIn, you can get 100, I've seen 300 applications in 24 hours, right, just by pressing that LinkedIn hiring button. So you want to use a quiz to filter out, hey, look, do you qualify for these?

If not, then the logic will kick you out. Or you might want to put them into the, this person might be more suited in sales rather than operations type of thing in terms of a potential hire. So a lot of, recruitment agencies, obviously lead generation, people that are running ads. And, big one that I think is so underrated is authors, right?

Because when you're an author and you're selling a million books on Amazon, Amazon don't share those emails with you, right? As you would know, right? You're just paying a whole bunch of marketing dollars. You're selling books and there's impact created somewhere in the world and you don't know really where, how much or whatever.

But if you had, a [00:17:00] scorecard, front, middle and end of your book, then out of those million book sales, you could have 250k more emails, right? So, which a client and plus all that data type of thing. So, so that is definitely some low hanging fruit that I see. Yeah.

Yeah.

Allan: because I mean, often you think about the scorecard type of tools as lead generators and they are good lead generators, but there we've talked about using there as a recruitment tool, potentially seeing what fit, how someone might fit into a role, if they do fit into a role, if they fit, fit into a better role, but also as a client.

Success Measuring Tools to see, hey, you started here, now you've done the quiz again, and now you're here. And I think that one is particularly important because, especially if you deliver something that's not very tangible, right? So like if you're delivering maybe training of some sort or whatever, where, You need [00:18:00] to demonstrate return on investment, but it's kind of hard to say, Hey you're people are now 20 percent better trained or whatever.

Whereas here you can put a tangible score on it. You can say, look, prior to the training they were a 52. Now after the training, they're an 82 and, or an 85 or whatever it is. And that's so many percentage points better. whatever else. So starting to be able to put some numbers and some stats behind the intangible things that you deliver.

I think that's really powerful. Any other use cases that we may have missed? So we've got kind of got lead generator. We've got a recruitment tool. We've got a proof or social proof kind of tool. Anything else that you've seen work well?

Maxwell: Yeah one of our most popular templates, so we have templates on the website, we've got AI to help you set it up, we've got it's so much easier than what it was five years ago type of thing. One of our most popular templates is the waiting list template, right? So, so Dan will talk a lot about, look if you have a [00:19:00] product idea, instead of putting hours and thousands of dollars building this product and then checking to see if anyone wants to buy it, why not just Slap together a waiting list put the features of the product there, just like, Kickstarter or Indiegogo, right?

Like, they don't have those iPhone charges, those laptop cases, the laptop bags made, they've got the schematic of it, and they've said, hey, look, if we can raise 100K in pre orders, we'll go out and manufacture this for you. So it's the exact same thing. It's the Kickstarter thing and it's low risk.

Because if they don't raise the money, then the money isn't spent, right? Then you don't get anything. And everyone who, and it really helps you to validate your market. Because we can all sit there and try to sort of imagine play a chess game in our head of how this marketing is going to work.

But that's a chess game in your head compared to, hey, I've got a waiting list of a thousand people, I think this is [00:20:00] bankable, right?

Allan: Yeah.

I like that. So yeah, the the waiting list strategy. I've heard Dan talk about that before and I'll have to have Dan on the podcast as well. He's a great author and a great thinker. The waiting list component is, it's very interesting because you can actually get people to demand what you've got without launching a potential

Maxwell: we're not spending any money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Allan: because a lot of people launch businesses, launch products, launch whatever, thinking, I think this is what the market will want, whereas you can have a lot more surety around, yes, people actually want this by them signing up for a wait list and saying putting their name down, putting maybe even a, some kind of prepayment down and then essentially voting with their wallet before you build the thing, whether it's software, whether it's a service, whether it's a, an event or whatever else.

I mean, we've seen this done in real life by some of the most amazing entrepreneurs on the planet. Well, [00:21:00] like, like an Elon Musk or whatever. I mean, tons of people have put it a deposit down on a Tesla Roadster, like years in advance of it being even conceived. And who knows if it'll ever actually see the light of day same with the Cybertruck, some same with all sorts of products that they've released in the past.

So I think it is a really powerful strategy to really validate with a mark. A market is real prior to investing a lot into product development and creation.

Maxwell: Yeah. 100%. And yeah, the deposit thing, I think a lot of people are scared to do that, right? Take money for something that you haven't built yet. But even if you took a 100 percent refundable deposit, like just that extra little hurdle of commitment. Just gives you so much confidence.

And that's bankable, right? That's like bankable interest. That you could then go to your team, okay, we're going to build this in priority, and we're going to over deliver what we promised. Right? Like, how cool is that? Then you come out of the gate you might [00:22:00] have interest for a hundred, but you only make fifty.

And then you sell out, out of the gate, right? Then you market promote that. and this isn't theory, like what you said, you see Elon do this over and over again, and there's a science behind it, and anyone can use that science.

Allan: Well, and psychologically when you're signing up for a waiting list, you're basically like it's a clear signal that this thing is oversubscribed. A lot of people want it. And by joining a waiting list, I may get it or I may not, I may miss out or whatever else. So it's very different than, Hey, please buy my stuff.

We've got plenty of supply or whatever. Just the supply-demand dynamics is a very important part of what you can charge in terms of price, but also generating the kind of demand that you actually want. And I think That's a super powerful way of thinking about it.

Maxwell: Yeah, and it also communicates something, right? So when you go to a really nice restaurant in Melbourne or in London, [00:23:00] and you see a line out the door, like, what does that communicate? It communicates that this place is, sold out. You have to, if you get a text message saying your table's ready, you have to come running, right?

Otherwise, you'll lose your table. So, the waiting list, in my opinion, is the the way to communicate the online version of the line at the door. So, hey, look, there's only one of Allan, and there's 4, 000 people waiting to take the next spot of Allan. Coaching or business accelerator or the next products or whatever.

So it communicates that line out the door visualization.

Allan: Yeah, I totally agree.

you've had a lot of experience in business coaching. You've had a lot of experience with angel investing. What are you looking for in an investment? And what have you seen? I mean, you've seen the inside of many different businesses.

What? What are some of the things that are clear signals? Hey, this business is on to something there. They're a great potential investment potentially, [00:24:00] or hey, I can see a clear signal. This business is going to do very well versus stuff that, that you can see. Hey, that's not just not going to work.

Maxwell: Yeah. So you want to look, it's not always possible, but you want as much data as possible that you're actually funding a need rather than a wants. Right. So, I'm involved in a few non online businesses that are producing like electricity and diesel. So those are obvious needs, right?

It's not always that clear. But, so how can you get data that you're finding a need rather than a want? There's a consumable wearable business that I'm getting involved in and It's called Sense8. So it's a. It's like a thing that hangs, it's like a necklace, a pendant that hangs on your neck and then you, it sits on, between your chest and it it reduces anxiety.

So it reduces anxiety it stimulates some nerve in your body, I've only heard this pitch once, and it calms you down and it's really good for people that work in like, shift work, 24 hour shift work, their [00:25:00] psychotic rhythm, they're not sleeping right, they're having too much coffee, they have coffee at like 2 in the morning, right, because that's a part of their job, or people that do FIFO and things like that.

So, when I first saw that business, I'm like, oh yeah, Who wants to buy that? Like yeah, maybe if you can get it into an Apple store, like people that walk into an Apple store might buy just for the sake of buying it, but what's special about that? Like how do I measure what's special about that, right?

And then the CEO told me, he said, look, I've sold a lot of consumer tech, and if you could get a one to five percent retention rate after 90 days, that's a win. Because typically consumer tech is like fad, super faddy it's, you buy one day, forget about the next day, then your kids are playing with it, right?

The retention rate of this product is 70%,

Allan: Oh wow.

Maxwell: 7 0, yeah, and so there's

Allan: What does it emit at? Like a pulse or something or like what?

Maxwell: I haven't actually used it yet, because it's not easy to get in Asia, because it's a US based [00:26:00] product and that type of thing, designed and made in California. But yeah, it emits like a pulse, and then communicates through like your bones to calm you down physically and systematically.

So, that's obviously very interesting, right? 70 percent is incredible. 70 percent retention. Like imagine someone reading your email list at a 70 percent open rate, right? Like that, that just would explode your business. And then they've got a what's it called? They've got a a subscription over and above that.

So then the current revenue is not just like a one hit wonder in terms of revenue. So that's the sort of data you want to look for. And if that's not available, then honestly, that the most prudent thing you could do with your money is to spend money on finding that data before you put your money into the business.

You know what I mean? Instead of having it be like this gut feel passion investment, you want to work out what's the lever to look at, that you can measure and try to find somewhere.

Allan: Yeah. I mean, [00:27:00] the other thing I look at is where am I spending a lot of money? Like, like you look over the credit card over the month, if you flick through or whatever where are my big ticket items being spent? Because if I'm spending a lot, There are probably a lot of others, especially if you, it's a subscription that you've had for many years or whatever else.

So like I look at some of our big ticket SaaS items and, they're ones that we just spend over and over. And especially ones that are sticky that's definitely a signal there. The other thing I've, as you sort of alluded earlier is just the founder. Often you're betting on the founder, not.

necessarily the tech or the product idea or whatever. There's a lot of people with great ideas, but not much follow through.

Maxwell: Yeah.

Allan: Betting on the founder, even if this one isn't a hit, well, then something they have in the future may be as well. So, I think that's incredibly important. Betting on the jockey, not necessarily on the [00:28:00] horse.

Maxwell: Yeah. A hundred percent. Right. Like, why did people put billions of dollars into sending people to Mars? Right. Like that idea is not the most people know they're not gonna get their money back. Right. And putting money into that idea, but they put money into someone who gets things done because so often there's a good idea, there's even a lot of money in the bank in terms of investment, but the entrepreneur just wasn't resourceful enough to get it done.

Allan: You so you talked about the Sense8. What are your thoughts around some of the other wearable like, one that I'm sort of fascinated with at the moment? I haven't tried it yet, but like continuous glucose monitoring where you're seeing like blood sugar spikes and all of that sort of thing.

Are you investing in a lot of those sorts of things or is it, was that sensei just one, one off.

Maxwell: Yeah. So Sense8 sort of just popped up cause my friend started working with them and he was introducing me to it. so, Apple's already in that space, [00:29:00] right? Blood sugar, and they're putting tons of money into that space. Do you ever want to compete with Apple? No. So, but do you want to make something that Apple could potentially buy? Yes, 100%. So that's also why, you know, when you think about an investment, don't just think about, what's exciting right now.

You've got to think about, okay, well, you're not going to get your money back unless someone buys this thing, right? Or they get to a public float. So you've got to think, yeah, it's really cool to buy the penthouse in, Melbourne CBD right now. But, am I buying this at a price that will make it easy to sell later?

Who's that forward looking five years from now, when I want to get my money back, who could that, what does that pool and market of buyers look like? so working backwards from the sale, basically.

Allan: So, last sort of question I wanted to sort of run by you. Obviously, you guys have integrated AI into ScoreApp. AI is a huge trend. One of the things that we're seeing now is Almost like the birth of disposable software where [00:30:00] you can go into Claude or you can go into ChatGPT or whatever and like, have it essentially code something for you that you can use to, hey, integrate this with that.

And and so, how do you think that's going to, affect software investment? Previously, yeah, well, still people are hiring a lot of developers, putting in tons of capital in, working on the UI, you've got the designer, you've got the coding team, you've got development, all of that sort of thing.

How do you think that's going to affect software development, both lifecycle investment, all of that sort of thing? Cause I'm sure you think about the future a lot. You're working in this space. What's been your thinking around that?

Maxwell: Yeah so Jensen Huang, right, the CEO of NVIDIA, I think he said earlier this year, software developers won't exist five years from now. Because the service will be democratized and systemized, and, almost given for free, right? Like, Chat GPT, 20 a month [00:31:00] compared to 250k a year paying a software engineer.

You just don't need to do that anymore. So, I wouldn't listen to what I have to say, I'd listen to what he has to say.

Allan: Fair enough. I mean, I don't think software developers are going away, but I think like with a lot of the tools that we've seen, like for example, we use Descript in our video editing workflow, right? Previously we needed someone who edited every frame and then we went in edit video editing was a really heavy lift. We still have a video editor, but it's much high level, and she can now do a lot more in a lot less time and need a lot less technical expertise in the area. Still, someone needs to drive it, but they're now more productive. They don't need as much you know, deeper skill set. So I think a lot of the people who are going to be the software developers of the future are people who can clearly [00:32:00] articulate thoughts and ideas into a prompt, something like, I mean, there is now specialized tools like cursor and V0 and others coming along.

So, someone who can clearly articulate what they want. the thing to do is now going to be the new software developers. So essentially writers will be the new software developers to a lot of extent, to a lot of extent. I think that's probably an oversimplification, but really having very clear vision and very clear ideas.

I think it's going to be critical.

Maxwell: Yeah, once upon a time when computers were first invented the only person that could use them was an engineer, because they were so complicated. But now, we can all use computers, so it's almost maybe that's where we're heading, right? Where the average person could effectively do what a software engineer could do, because the tools are so great.

Allan: I agree. Maxwell, it's been a pleasure speaking with you. So where did people find out more about you and ScoreApp and how [00:33:00] do they take the next step?

Maxwell: Yeah, good question. So, scoreapp, S C O R E A P P dot com is our website. If you'd like you can send us a message. We can send you a PDF copy of our book, which is here. Allan's actually in this book. He's one of the testimonials in here. So you can find him in there towards the back.

And I'm addicted to LinkedIn. So if you want to get me, message me on LinkedIn.

Allan: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you, Maxwell. That's really good. Your thoughts have been insightful. I appreciate your time.

Maxwell: My pleasure. Thanks Allan.

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