Coaching at Scale: The Blueprint Behind a 7-Figure Monthly Engine With Owen Chambers

Episode 50 Owen Chambers
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Starting with Wins: The Coaching Perspective
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Owen: from a coaching perspective, that's why you always start a coaching call with focusing on wins. And you always end on with saying, what's been the thing you got the most value from today? 'cause you want people to repeat the value and leave going, that was great.

Owen: And you want people to start going, you guys are awesome. And then. They don't wanna hear it just from the coach. They wanna hear it from the community as well. So we celebrate wins publicly. We're very big on that. And then at the end of the day, like anything, times by zero is zero. Like you still need to get 'em a result.

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Introduction to the Lean Marketing Podcast
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Allan: Welcome to the Lean Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Allan Dib. Today I've got someone who's built an incredible business. He has got a coaching and a consulting business. And unlike a lot of coaches and consultants who run essentially as solopreneurs and often have this feast and famine kind of cycle He does one and a half million dollars per month in revenue, not per year. Per [00:01:00] month. And so I wanted to go deep with Owen into, first of all, how we built that. How does that look structurally in terms of team, in terms of lead generation, in terms of sales? Because to build a one and a half million dollar per month coaching and consulting business, you need to have a lot of systems.

Allan: You need to have a lot of people, you need to have things in place that you. Just couldn't do as a either. A solopreneur, definitely not as a solopreneur, but even as a small team, that's kind of, where you've got just people surrounding you.

Owen Chambers: Building a Million-Dollar Coaching Business
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Allan: So, welcome to the podcast, Owen. So good to have you.

Owen: Yeah. Great to be here, Allan. Thanks very much for having me. Long time listener. First time caller uh, big fan of the book. Our team, get a copy of your one-page marketing plan book when they join the company. So appreciate uh, be on the podcast today.

Allan: Amazing. Thank you for that. I, I appreciate that. So, maybe intro yourself a little bit. What do you do, who do you do it for?

Owen: Yep.

Allan: We'll get into the mechanics of how you [00:02:00] run the day-to-day business, how you do lead gen, but I'd love to know the, some of the origin story as well.

Owen: Of course. Sure. So, my name's Owen Chambers, director and general manager here at the Professional Builder. Me and my business partner, Marty Amos we coach general contractors and custom residential builders. We help 'em go from builder to business owner, so we put in place with them numbers and pricing team and systems and sales and marketing.

Owen: So where many coaching companies can often just provide leads or just provide services in one particular area, we have a little bit more holistic in that we provide coaching, accountability licensing of all the tools and templates that we've got for every facet of running a building company. And then also performance communities.

Owen: So people get peer advisory, they get group coaching as well as one-on-one stuff. So we've been doing it since 2004. I've been with Marty for the last decade and I've been a business partner with him for the last kind of three years, and those last three years have seen us well the last 10 years is when I've been part of the company, the last three as a [00:03:00] business partner with Marty.

Owen: And we've had got a lot of scar tissue. We've tried it all When it comes to coaching, we've done the one-on-one model, the group model, the 12 week or three month program, all of it. And that's helped us refine down what really works and what doesn't, and also refine down our attract, convert, and deliver mechanisms and refined on also what team members work best with us to grow a large team and ultimately a large business for our team and ourselves.

Owen: So, yeah.

Niche Coaching for Builders: Strategies and Success
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Allan: so you are working purely with people in the construction industry, build builders and what are you helping them to do essentially

Owen: Yeah.

Allan: their businesses? Is that

Owen: Correct. Yeah. So many of them are great builders. They dropped outta high school to swing a hammer. They now find themselves in charge of one to $12 million worth of revenue, but with almost no business experience. They don't know their numbers, they don't know what a system is. They know they need it, but they're not sure what it looks like.

Owen: So we come in and we help them do all of that backend stuff. So, we are a very [00:04:00] tight, narrow niche in that we only work with residential construction companies. So remodelers new construction, not commercial night light, industrial not civil, none of that stuff. And if I could probably do it all again, we would go niche.

Owen: Like, we would narrow it down even further and we would just do remodelers or just do new builders or hack. You could go in and just do landscapers or just do pool builders or transportable or something. It allows us to get a result from member a lot faster, allows us to like help far more specifically and in far more detail.

Owen: So, you know what's different with sub-trades, like say an electrician or HVAC or plumber is the cash flow cycles and a lot of the invoicing and project sizes. Whereas with residential construction, if somebody's building a a custom home, that's a potentially a million or $2 million contract. It's the biggest investment of somebody's life that they'll likely ever make.

Owen: And to get to $10 million in revenue, you only sometimes need. [00:05:00] Five to 10 projects. Like, it's not like we need a lot of clients to get to large revenues with our members. So, um, I mean that's where sales and marketing comes in and position yourself as like a celebrity and an expert or a trusted advisor and authority, not a generalist and not even a specialist anymore.

Owen: And yeah, we help them with getting leads, buying back their time with sales and marketing and getting a handle on their numbers so they can make some money. 'cause you know, the kind of quote of the industry is like she'll be right, just whack builder's margin on it, 10% and that's the quickest way to go backwards or out of business.

Owen: No, it's not a lot of fun for people. So we help them to avoid that as well.

Allan: I, I think I, I wanna underline this point that. You can almost never be too niche, like just the, you know, I get to see the inside of so many businesses and the ones that are just general and wide open. Messaging is harder. Targeting is harder, it's more expensive to close them. It's more expensive and more difficult to get them a [00:06:00] result.

Allan: So the more narrow that you can be, I call it an inch wide and a mile deep,

Allan: The easier it'll be to get a result and the easier it is to systemize getting that result. Because if you are coaching at scale you just can't do custom work for every client. It just becomes unworkable. So often coaches will start just themselves, you know, and, even when I started, I was just coaching one-on-one myself. And you know, in the beginning feels, wow, this is unbelievable. Like, you know, I'm just spitting wisdom all day and getting paid a lot of money for it. And then um, you find yourself on calls all day, and that kind of gets old pretty quickly.

Allan: And, you know, you have kind of these cycles of, clients coming on, clients coming off, and all of that sort of thing. Then you naturally move to a group model, like you mentioned, or a like a course model or, cohort model. So talk me through some of your journey early on there. What model, what coaching and delivery models did you do?

Allan: What didn't work both from a delivery point of view, but [00:07:00] also just from a scalability point of view

Owen: Yeah, so I think it all works. It just doesn't all work at once and at different stages and optimizations of the company, you need to adopt different models and methods. So for example, as you said, like starting up. One-on-one is fantastic for understanding exactly how to get somebody a phenomenal result.

Owen: So speed is a big principle throughout our entire company. From a sales and marketing perspective, it's speed to lead. And from a member perspective, it's speed to result. So one-on-one is great 'cause you're, right in there working with the members, understanding all the nuances, understanding all the specifics on how to get the result really quickly.

Owen: What we then did is we transitioned into more leverage. So you're gonna hit a ceiling pretty quick, one-on-one unless you're just gonna build a monster team of experts that are very well paid. So one-on-one transitions into group, and then at that point you kind of understand that, we have a, an equation inside of our company, which is retention equals relationships, times by result, [00:08:00] times by runway.

Owen: And I think times by zero is zero. So, you know, stage one, one-on-one is like mastering your result piece. Stayed next to one to many is mastering the relationship piece because it's not just a relationship between the coach and the member, it's a relationship between the members and the members in your network as well.

Owen: So building up that people feel part of a tribe, part of like a cult cheer. And then the next part is like how do you build out that runway for people so that they can see what the future looks like beyond just program A for you into program B. So you know, they might be here on your journey. How do you show them what the next level of the journey looks like?

Owen: And that's normally spotlighting members, making members, celebrities in your community. So it's less about the owners and the people that are previously like the gurus or the fountain of wisdoms, but more about the process, the program, the people on that program, and all the aspects that go into the runway or the journey that these members are on.

Owen: And again, to [00:09:00] your point, the narrower and more specific you can be, the easier that becomes because. Generally speaking, most residential builders desire and kind of, aspire to be part developers as well. So do spec builds and developments on the side, as well as having a couple of clients and a couple of contracts to help cash flow.

Owen: So it's kind of easy to paint a specific roadmap or a specific journey into the future. So when we started, our background was from action coaching. So my business partner, Marty Amos came from an action coaching background very successful one with Brad Sugars. And then we transitioned into what we called at the time, builder's Profitable Marketing, which is kind of more marketing focused, coaching the world's worst name but again, a lot of scar tissue in 10 years of doing this.

Owen: and then we rebranded and repositioned ourselves to the professional builder, which is again, kind of like more aspirational for many of these builders that feel like they. Aren't professional. And that to be, to get the best contracts and to work with the best [00:10:00] architects and to get the best team you need to be perceived as professional.

Owen: And so that's where that name came in. And yeah, like I said before, one-on-one group, we then thought that with a better cash cycle, we could grow faster. So in our wisdom, what was working really well was like a group model. So we decided to kill that and do like a 12 week thing off. Like the races went phenomenally well, revenue grows, but ultimately over time the margin becomes more and more compressed.

Owen: 'cause you provide a phenomenal service, big overheads to get people a great result. But your business turns over every three months. Like people sign up and then in theory, on paper they ascend into another program. But in reality, you over deliver or you under deliver or you deliver just enough. And they kind of go, I've got plenty to be working with.

Owen: I'll. Go and implement this and see you in 12 months and then you're like, ah, fuck. Well the economics need you to be here for a little bit longer than that. So that went really well for a period, but ultimately, like didn't [00:11:00] work go well for Marty and I. And that's where we then made the second or another transition back into what was originally working, which is a hybrid model, both one-on-one community and group coaching with events with a really robust membership site.

Owen: We now have three tiers of coaches, specialty coaches success performance coaches and success coaches. So specialty coaches come from the industry. They're normally kinda the OGs and really good at what they do. Might specialize in cost plus contracts or fixed price contracts or larger projects over $4 million or, you know, being in the startup phase or whatever.

Owen: And they help us to build out our IP and our trainings. So that it's well classed and absolute best in the world. And then we have our performance coaches, which is kind of like the point guard, and they take a cohort of members and they make sure they have a plan. They know how to execute on that plan, and that they are being coached appropriately for the stage of business that they're in.

Owen: And [00:12:00] they see and take care of a cohort of anywhere between 60 to 75 members. And then we have success coaches and they're accountability people. They're there to make sure that you are getting help, you're getting support, and that you're making progress through your game plan. We have kinda like an internal phrase, which is like, Frank Sinatra doesn't shift his own piano.

Owen: And what we mean by that is like the success coaches are there to make sure that the specialty coaches and the performance coaches are like Frank Sinatra. Like they're there to coach, not to send emails, do this, do that. And I think that's where I. We've been, had success in the last couple of years attracting phenomenal talent because we want to be a great place for people to work.

Owen: And most coaches don't want to do admin and emails just like salespeople don't wanna do admin, right? So, you know, we're still a coaching company, but um, we are like a coaching company for our team now at scale, if that makes sense. So like the graduation that we've made [00:13:00] most recently is like Marty, myself and our HODs still coach.

Owen: We just coach our team, just not our members anymore, if that makes sense.

Allan: Yeah. And so practically what does the program currently look like? So Mm-hmm. join the program, you're at a particular level and then you might work with a specialty coach on what? Like something that you need, like what would be an example?

Owen: Yeah, totally. So this first 60 days is incredibly prescriptive 'cause the onboarding on ramp for any. Member is like, I mean, it's a hundred percent churn after onboarding, right? It doesn't matter how good you are, you extend the time horizon long enough into the future and a hundred percent of your members will churn out.

Owen: So not a hundred percent of members will go through month 25. So you might think that month 20 fives is important to get right on a member journey. But actually month one in the first 60 to 90 days is the most important. 'cause a hundred percent of people go through that. So that's where it's absolutely bulletproof dialed in.

Owen: And what we do is we do [00:14:00] an immediate game plan. So after the sale is made, there's a game plan, and that's where we, it's one-on-one. with the uh, performance coach who is the point guard of the cohort. And they're gonna make sure that you know what to do, know how to do it, and know when it needs to be done by you.

Owen: Then have a group launch session. With everybody else that's joined that week. And that's where we build up those relationships, not just with the coach, but with the community that you're about to launch with. There's some competition involved, there's some, you know, yard sticking, there's some getting to know people as well.

Owen: And that's really important. Then what we have is we have a success call, and this is where we do kind of like a net promoter score, like just a check in. It's done by like the success coach, the accountability person, and it's essentially just like, Allan, how you going? How you find the program?

Owen: Have you managed to achieve homework piece number one, are you making progress here? Does it all make sense? On a scale of one to 10, one you feel an absolute that you made the wrong decision and 10, you can't wait for [00:15:00] the next, you know, 13 months it's gonna be the best of your business career. How are you going?

Owen: And then at that point, many people give us a great result and that's where we capture Google reviews as well. We go, ah, thank you so much. If I text you now a link to a Google review, which you'll be able to leave us one or do you think it.

Allan: you are asking for reviews like in month one.

Owen: Yeah, like straight away. 'cause people have got such a great result. Like strike while that's hot, you know? If you go check out a Google review, it's relatively new. This process has not been in play for much longer than sort of six months, but you'll see one or two every single week popping through.

Allan: When you say result, what sort of result are in month one? Is it just clarity what need do, or are they actually getting something done and achieving something

Owen: it's both. So it's both a real result and a perceived result. So the perceived result is what you're talking about, like clarity, confidence. Oh my gosh. There's a community that gets me now. Oh, I feel so good to have a coach in my corner. We try and build them up and they enter the community so [00:16:00] that they'll, they're introduced into the community and we will get into the comments like, what's up?

Owen: So good to have you here. Oh, Allan, you're from Victoria, you're in Melbourne. So good. Tag tag. Everybody else that's in Melbourne sort of thing. And then there's the real result, which is typically relatively custom. 'cause we cover a broad range of solutions within a very narrow niche. So, if it's marketing and sales related, it's normally starting closest to the sales funnel.

Owen: Like what are the jobs being priced at the moment or the jobs being presented at the moment? What are the jobs like? How do we help get you a sale, like immediately? If it's numbers and pricing related, it's typically gonna be like, let's open your P&L or the last job you've priced and work through this and get some like, visibility on it.

Owen: And then in our industry, 1% gross profit margin improvement can translate through to like tens of thousands of dollars in net profit at the bottom. 'cause they're dealing with 3, [00:17:00] 5, 10, 20 $5 million revenues. So 1% improvement can be a huge lever. So it's normally closest to the cash. Have we got an invoicing cycle on a weekly basis or a fortnightly basis, or a monthly basis on the 20th of the month.

Owen: So we're unpacking that and if it's a team and systems thing, it's like, hey, we've got gtps and other AI or automation pieces to help you get like a job add out immediately, filter through some people, what are the role scopes. So it's quite customer and that's why we get them into a one-on-one right away with a, you know, the sales process is pretty damn good.

Owen: But then the next set is a one-on-one with the coach. And that's why we are very big believers that any coaching program has to be hybrid. There has to be an element of one-on-one, not a lot, but there has to be some so that we can get right to the jugular and help quite.

Allan: And so with yours, is it a weekly one-on-one call and then group calls? Or is

Allan: Yeah, so there is a rhythm. What we do is at the beginning of every month, [00:18:00] there's what we call A BPC or a business performance check. So at a, as part of this, so we did the game plan, we did the launch session, we had the success call, and as part of the onboarding in the first 60 days, they hook up their financials to a white labeled program called Fathom hq.

Allan: It helps to visualize their P&L, their balance sheet and everything. And normally that's like kind of real, but a lot of a perceived result very quickly, like, oh my God, like where there was once darkness, there is now a light, like happy days, let's go. And that helps us to kind of get some retention on the back as well because you now are like part of their life.

Allan: You know, like, it's hard to rip out some visibility from your business if you leave. Like if you had that, you know what I mean? So, at the beginning of every month, once they're up and running, after that first 60 days, they get a BPC at the beginning of the month. And the BPC is basically, we have a dedicated team that go through their financials, unpack where they're at for the [00:19:00] month, for the quarter on track or off track.

Allan: Because we are so niched, we know typical ratios of where your gross profit, overheads and net profit should be, cashflow, cash reserves and things like that. We then shoot a loom video per business. It's like two to 10 minutes. Like some people are crushing it and just say, brother, you are doing great.

Allan: Well done. Other people are cooked and they go, okay, you're cooked. We need to do this A, B, and C. Looks like getting back on a call, coming to this group session, whatever. Like we have a playbook for a fast cash turnaround. So they get that at the beginning of every month and month. A week, one of every month is empty.

Allan: 'cause all it is numbers. Like start with data. That is all that matters is ultimately the language of business and the foundation of all good businesses knowing your numbers. So week one of every month is just that. Don't talk to us about anything else other than numbers. It's like we beat it politely, beat it into our members like that.

Allan: And they're talking numbers in a, in the group session or they're talking or

Owen: No, that is [00:20:00] just a one, like leverage one-on-one business performance check. It's us sending them the Loom video with a kind of a report of their numbers and they're engaging back and we are trying to have an engagement with them.

Allan: They're sending like a Loom video back or something like that.

Owen: Yeah. Or they're commenting back onto the comments of the Loom video. Or like if they're in a green light and they're crushing it, we might then go.

Owen: You're crushing it. Well done. What's been the biggest impact? Capturing some more social proof. Getting 'em to post that into the community. Spotlighting members that are on the ahead so that we have more runway for future members, right? If they're red light, then we're escalating an issue. So we're going, this is a real problem.

Owen: We need you to either A book in here, B attend this session, or c do this training. Ideally, all of the above, right? So that they can start the process. And then from week two onwards, we're from [00:21:00] business as usual or following up red lights sort of thing. So business as usual is Then on a Tuesday we have a performance community, and on a Thursday we have a topic sort of thing.

Owen: So a performance community is where like, you know, you specialize in you might be finding, sorry, trying to find a project manager or. Doing recruitment at the moment just as you are part of your game plan. Whereas I might be doing a large scale development, so I want questions and help around development and financing, whereas you want that thing.

Owen: And we've got enough people now on the program where we can try and curate those communities quite nicely and shoulder tap people and get the right people into the right rooms. And we aim to get people to a community every Tuesday, at least once a month sort of thing. So you could turn up every week if you wanted, but ideally, like you're gonna feel part of a subset of a broader community sort of thing.

Owen: It's relevant to where you're at right this moment. So that's on Tuesday. Then on a [00:22:00] Thursday it's like a content piece. So we're updating and renewing new programs that are part of our existing curriculum. So the best way to get better at our content is to show more of a member example. So a member, like members just keep raising the bar like we have this.

Owen: One core training called a Wow info pack, which is part of the sales process that our members use before a site visit. We get 'em to courier out like a glossy magazine. It's like an offline version of their website answers the big questions of who are you, who's your team? How can I trust you, how can you help me?

Owen: Specifically, I got concerns around timeline, budget, trust within quality and communication. And every year, or fuck, not even year, like every six months, a member just takes that to another level. So it used to be a glossy mag Then it was like a box, like a shoebox with their logo on the front, and then it was a wooden, beautiful wooden varnished box.

Owen: Then the box got laser engraved on the top with like 34 Blue Street. We can't wait to build this [00:23:00] home. And it was like a picture. Of their house on the top of the box. And now we've had this member that's 3D printed one inside the box so you can pull out the entire house that they're about to build and walk 'em through the whole thing.

Owen: And it is called a wow pack. 'cause it's designed to turn up on site before the builder turns up for their site visit and the client should go, huh. Wow. Right. And takes the client, or the prospect, I should say, from cold to pre-sold so that you turn up for the site visit and take 'em from pre-sold to sold on a preliminary contract.

Allan: We call it shock and awe packages.

Owen: Exactly, it is old school, but it works phenomenally well. Funny that right. So the point is that Thursday is about raising the bar on existing content. So it's either done by spotlighting members that are part of our elevated program and having them present, or it's part of just us condensing a training that used to be 60 minutes down to 30 and then down to 10 so that you can speak to result, like I said.

Owen: But yeah, that happens every Thursday and that. Tuesday, Thursday rhythm happens [00:24:00] on the second, third, and fourth week of every month, or as appropriate, so that the first week is their numbers again, and that rhythm starts again. And then the one-on-ones are kind of as required or as part of the onboarding or as part of the final 120 days under agreement.

Owen: So, you know, we find that, in the first 60 days and in the last one 20 days, people normally need a little bit of extra handholding and support. And then in the middle they need to just get shit done so they can get a result. And there's not a correlation or causation between more one-on-one time and a better result at a certain level.

Owen: Like you need some, but there's no like gain, there's diminishing returns after, you know, six hours or so.

Allan: Yeah. Okay.

Owen: Hey, Alan here. Want to dive deeper into today's episode? Head to lean marketing.com/podcast for links to all the resources we mentioned, plus some exclusive ones. Just for podcast listeners, you [00:25:00] can also subscribe to get notified when new episodes drop and receive my latest marketing and business tips right in your inbox.

Allan: That's lean marketing.com/podcast. Now back to the show.

Allan: it sounds like a pretty sophisticated operation that you've got there, which is really cool.

Allan: So, I wanna sort of double click on the community aspect because a lot of times people will come for content or come for coaching and often stay for community.

Allan: How do you develop that community?

Allan: 'cause so, so many times people will get people like into like a circle or a school group or what, whatever platform you are using. Everyone introduces themselves and then it's crickets. So how do you curate that community? and is that an important part of people staying or is

Owen: Oh

Allan: an add-on?

Owen: no. 100%. I think you nailed it with they come for X, but they stay for y. You know, like I'm sure everybody's got a relatively similar experience when they've joined, say, a gym and you're like, I joined the gym to get in shape

Owen: and they've stayed because. They [00:26:00] really enjoy hanging out with these people. It's a good dopamine hit and everyone's a bundle of laughs and back slaps and a good time. It's the same sort of thing. So we still haven't mastered this. This is the biggest lever and opportunity area for us, once you've actually established a really good rhythm to get people results.

Owen: So again, I go back to that equation because like you want people to stay with you for as long as possible. We're a subscription recurring revenue retention based business. So retention is tied to results, relationships, and runway. People see the future people getting a result and a relationship. And this is the community piece.

Owen: And what we do is we've got events, we've got the Facebook group, we are just moving to circle, so we have more data on this. We have previously been on Upcoach but didn't get the analytics or the data or depth of understanding from that platform to allow us to make informed decisions. Whereas when the process pretty much done of moving to circle and we're getting to get [00:27:00] far better insights into how long people are on trainings for what the most clicked on trainings are, most popular stuff is, and we can probably do a better job than of curating the sub communities and working out where people are getting stuck and having a better relationship with them.

Owen: 'cause it will feel a lot more hand in glove. And that's why I'm also so bullish on getting back into in-person events because like we've nailed the quote unquote nailed for now until the next pro product cycle begins of getting members a result with our content and our trainings and our coaching.

Owen: And now it's like leaning into and taking it from like a decent level to like a really world class level for the content stuff next. So, yeah we haven't nailed it. I think there's, it's quite nuanced honestly.

Allan: The other thing I've found is the higher level the community is, the less time they have for, you know, commenting and interacting in groups and stuff. But they really value the in-person stuff. [00:28:00] Like, you know, being able to hang out for a day or two with some of your industry peers, some of experts, all of that, versus being in a Facebook group and commenting and all that.

Allan: I mean, that, that's all okay. But you know, they're busy building projects. They're actually doing stuff, right.

Owen: Yeah. A hundred percent depe in, in regards to like, the life cycle that we went through. I remember when we first launched our Facebook group, and we were like scared back then. We were kinda like, oh my gosh, like this is all now public. What if somebody complains?

Owen: So it's just such a perceived fear and perceived risk, like not a real one. And when we started, we had, it was like hard work that community, 'cause you know, you have, let's say fewer than a hundred. So you are the one who has to make all the connections and do all the shit. And then once you get above, I don't know an exact number, but like 120 or 200 members in a community, it's kind of like self-fulfilling a little bit if you have trained and taught them how to use the community correctly.

Owen: So what I mean by that is, like, again, in the first 60 days, what we do is we position [00:29:00] the runway. You want to be like X, like y and like Z in boardroom program or in elevated program. But then additionally you want to train them what a good question looks like, what a bad question looks like, and how to use the community appropriately.

Owen: Like every Wednesday we do this, every Friday, we do that in the community and should go there for these things. This is the value, this is why it's helpful. It's like a sales process that first 60 days. 'cause you're selling them into how to participate in your cult.

Owen: If you come into that community and there's crickets or you see that nobody replies to stuff and nobody welcomes people in, then I'm not doing that.

Owen: I don't wanna be the sore thumb that stinks, stands out. But like if you and your team do that, and again, it's kind of like we've got such a large team now where it's just standard. Like it's part of everybody's role and responsibility is to jump in there. And sometimes when we fall behind this and we're like, this is not good enough anymore, we have a company wide meeting on a Thursday.[00:30:00]

Owen: First five minutes guys. The Facebook group has been quiet. too quiet look, three comments, two comments, four comments. Not good enough. Like five minutes. Now everyone go to the Facebook group, welcome people, leave comments and you know we got 53 on the team now. So like, do that for five minutes. Everyone leaves one or two comments and.

Owen: It course corrects quite quickly sort of thing, but it's just recognizing it at that and then pointing everyone in the right direction for it as well.

Allan: How many different tiers of programs do you have and what are the price points?

Owen: So we have had everything over the last decade. We currently have three and that is a what we call profitable projects. That's very low risk, month to month 900 bucks. We have what's called growth accelerator, which is a minimum term, 13 months. Obviously, we're not gonna hold anybody over a barrel, 13, because that's [00:31:00] just how it's positioned through the sales process. And then genuinely, based on our experience, we need at least 12 months to get somebody a result. Like we're dealing with construction companies, it's 12 months on site doing a project, right?

Owen: You want to have these systems repeat and recur. Beyond working with us, you might be on a payment cycle of 30 to 60 days and you might be on a sales cycle in construction of two months to two years. Like you can't expect to turn around a cruise ship or a container ship in six 60 days. It was like one of the biggest lessons we took from doing our three month program.

Owen: It's like, it's actually not good for anybody. Giving people sometimes what they think they want. Like it's bad for our business and it's bad for their business 'cause. You build this bridge to the promised land that gets half built and now you're just stuck with a white elephant. It's like, what the fuck did I buy that program for?

Owen: You know? Whereas if you work with 'em for 13 months and then in our agreement it goes month to month thereafter, [00:32:00] and you can cancel it any time with 30 days notice. So it's get to the end of 13 months and you can leave. But most people stay with us and stay for on average, and it's like two point 2.9 years sort of thing.

Navigating Client Agreements and Cash Flow
---

Owen: Almost three. But they then stay kind of month to month thereafter after the agreement, which now we're getting to some scale, gives me the willies because I'm like, fuck, that's a lot of people that are off agreement and in theory could leave at any point. So we're trying to rework that a little bit at this point.

Owen: But ultimately like 13 months because it takes a month to get up and running and then 12 months to get a result. We're gonna raise it to 15 because like, you know, pricing and sales psychology 1 0 1, like we have zero. Pushback you know, job of a

Allan: the $900 entry level program. You've got the 13 month mid-level program. What's

Owen: yep. 2,500 a month and a launch, launch fee to get going of 14, 9 5. So it's four grand on day zero and 2,500 a month thereafter. Pay in advance. [00:33:00] So 14 four grand on day zero. And then day 30 on day 60. So we have a good cash cycle, and I think that's something that's not spoken about enough in the coaching industry is the requirement to make sure that you have good economics and the ability to deploy cash to a, if you're trying to build a business that is at scale, you're gonna need.

Owen: working capital for ad spend, sales commission and everything else. And the faster you can collect to then deploy and have a good 30 day break even on acquisition or 45 day or 60 day break even on acquisition, the better. So having that launch fee was a way better approach to solving that cash constraint than re-engineering an entire three month program that collects it in three months.

Owen: That's a stupid way of doing it at least in my experience and in my opinion.

Mastering Client Retention and Program Success
---

Owen: Then we have a boardroom program, which is for higher level people. We haven't honestly cracked the code on Ascension and getting people into [00:34:00] another program 'cause a lot of people love GA. Just kinda stay around and stay as part of this program.

Owen: And if you were to look at our P&L and our revenue tracking and stuff like our profit approach and our boardroom revenue kind of. Just draining up flat lines like eh, and then our GA is just like up and to the right. It's going really well and I think that's probably another lesson that a lot of people have is that the promise on paper of like an ascension pathway I think is more of a promise on paper than in my experience, a reality.

Owen: Like if you actually just master getting really damn good at getting a member a result through one mechanism, like one program, there's so much more gain to be had there than being strategic about or start here. Then they'll move to this program, then they'll move to that program. I think it's important, but like the spotlighting and the retention and everything we do for like runway so far has [00:35:00] just had more of an impact on keeping people in our community and in our world than having them go, oh, I want to. Move up here.

Allan: Yep. It can someone go straight into boardroom or do they need to ascend into that from

Owen: oh, we only sell it in straight into boardroom if you're like an absolute weapon. Very rarely do we do that. Because in the sales process,

Allan: point for boardroom?

Owen: It's 3,500 a month it's more of like a positioning tool in the sales process, right? Because it's this is heavy, but this one is light, you know, sort of thing.

Owen: So, I think strategically, if you're trying to build a coaching. Program, it's very hard to understand what your objective is of your top level one. Like is it to increase LTV, which currently, in my opinion, is just do that through increasing contract term, getting better at selling your main thing and have people stay on that main thing.

Owen: Or is it to be a profit zone, in which case it should be if that was the goal, it shouldn't be priced at 3,500. We should price [00:36:00] it like 10 grand, have like three people on it and work insanely close with them and it's real profit zone. So I think you gotta get really clear as to what your priority is for your top range thing.

Owen: And for us at the moment, both our bottom and our top are kind of half pregnant and we haven't nailed those. And our middle is going great and it's like you can build a really big business with just one product. Like, you know, like it doesn't really have to be this value ladder or whatever Russell Bronson calls it.

Owen: If it doesn't work for you, but yeah.

Allan: And I do agree that, I mean, ascension is an important strategy, but often it's oversold.

Owen: Totally.

Allan: given that it takes as long as it does for them to get a result, you said 13 months, maybe even longer, how do you stop them from getting discouraged in month three?

Allan: Month four? They, you know, they're looking at their credit card statement every month, there's 2,500, you know, haven't really, you know, got a massive result, or maybe I've got some result or whatever. Like, how do you get stop them from [00:37:00] feeling discouraged and be like, yeah, this isn't working. You know?

Owen: Totally. Well, I think there's a few things. I think from a business owner's perspective you need to inspect where your micro churn happens. you know, you zoom out and you go, oh, our churn's at two and a half percent this month, or 3% this month. But then when you zoom in, it's like 80% of that churn happens at month X and Y.

Owen: That's where there are, the data is saying there's actually issues sort of thing. And then you can work down right to the level of like the scripting and the training that you give your coaches as to how they handle calls. And then I don't think there's a silver bullet for any of it. So I think there's like only layering on multiple strategies like the community aspect, like the one-on-one aspect, like the ability to book a call if you need to hand like the tracking and the non-engaged members in the community and then outreaching to them and having a traffic light system that's being run 24 7 3 6 5.

Owen: So you know where your members are [00:38:00] at. Like I think it's deal all the above. Like from a coaching perspective, that's why you always start a coaching call with focusing on wins. And you always end on with saying, what's been the thing you got the most value from today? 'cause you want people to repeat the value and leave going, that was great.

Owen: And you want people to start going, you guys are awesome. And then. They don't wanna hear it just from the coach. They wanna hear it from the community as well. So we celebrate wins publicly. We're very big on that. And then at the end of the day, like anything, times by zero is zero. Like you still need to get 'em a result.

Owen: Even if it takes people 12 months to get a result in construction, sometimes you still need to have them get a result and start of 30 days and every month. So it's been good at what you do, right? It's like going, what's a quick win for lead gen? What's a quick win for marketing? What's a quick win for visibility to numbers or pricing your next project or hiring or having a crucial conversation?

Owen: it's easy for us to get a result from, remember every single month when.

Owen: It could be a leadership, [00:39:00] a recruiting, a training, sales, a marketing, a pricing, a numbers problem, right? So come on, like, business ain't that bad. Like even during covid, like there's wins to be had across the board in all these areas. But you know, it is hard. I think it's just you gotta be in glove and really know your member and then have a good program built to get speed to result.

Owen: And that's like the focus, it's like every session always starts with data, right? How many leads you get? What's your conversion rate? What's your margin at, where's your cash position? Where's your cash flow? so here's the playbook. Let's role play the script right this second.

Owen: Are you good to go and call these people today? That's a quick win for people, and that's something that you can only kind of do if you're not only doing group coaching or selling a course. Like you've gotta be right there with them in some aspects. And that's, I suppose, where you gotta work out, where your responsibility stops and finishes as a [00:40:00] coach.

Owen: But for us it's the data tells the story and we track the data and then try and find a solution to help the data sort of thing. Yeah.

Allan: it.

Effective Lead Generation and Sales Strategies
---

Allan: so obviously, I mean, you've got this big machine going. You've got 52 people on staff.

Allan: A ton of customers, you've got community, you've got salespeople, all of that. How are you feeding this beast? How are you getting leads top of funnel, middle and converting them?

Owen: Yeah, so it's pretty exclusively paid. We get a few referrals, we get a bit of organic, we get a bit of, you know, just general inbound from random events and PR and podcasts and stuff like that. But ultimately, like we generate opt-ins and leads from primarily like meta. We then have either they book their own call to have what we call a triage conversation.

Owen: And again, 'cause we're so narrow and so niche, that triage call has a phenomenally high conversion rate and a very high position we can take because we can ask insanely specific questions.

Owen: Which helps us position us as [00:41:00] authorities and experts really quickly, even if they've never heard us before. You guys are the real deal. This is gold. And if they don't book a call directly and immediately themselves, we have our lowest tier or level on the sales teams pyramid, which is called an MDR Marketing Development rep, and they're speed to lead.

Owen: They're calling people through a service, not a sales positioning thing, where it's like, Allan, I saw you downloaded like the pricing for profit checklist. Normally people that download that are actually looking for more money in their bank account and to know whether they're undercharging or overcharging or when they sit in the market.

Owen: Would answers to those things be helpful for you as well? No. Tell me to fuck off. Not a problem. See you later. Yes. Sweet as. Okay, cool. We've got a bunch going on and we can help people just like we help many people just like you. How would you like us to help? It could be a, it could be B or it could be C come to workshop, talk with one of our team.

Owen: Or we could do a review of your P&L in private and in confidence So, you know, we [00:42:00] generate, between 800 and a thousand opt-ins kind of a week.

Owen: And if they're not booking their own call, then we are calling them in a speed to lead priority, like within sight of like five minutes to 60 minutes, like straight away, because we're dealing with builders.

Allan: Yeah.

Owen: And they're awesome to work with. But yeah, if you don't get a hold of them when they're doing something, you ain't getting a hold of them.

Owen: Like, we've done calls where it's been like the 13th call and they've picked up the phone and you go, gates, I'm from the professional building. And they go, ah, been wanting to talk to you guys. I've seen you everywhere and you're going, you could have, you could've fooled me. I've been trying the last two weeks.

Owen: Like, you know what I mean? for us, for our market, it's speed to lead over anything else. 'cause if you don't catch 'em when they're doing the stuff, you're just not gonna get 'em.

Allan: Yeah.

Owen: Yeah

Allan: I can relate. I've been trying to get a quote for a new fence for like two or three weeks. I can't get someone to return my call,

Owen: yeah. It's chaos. [00:43:00] Crazy.

Allan: pay you money, man. Like,

Owen: Yeah.

Owen: Yeah. Totally. Totally.

Allan: So the ads that you are running, they're ads to kind of something that solves a specific problem for them. So, hey, I need more staff. So there's the employer guide I need to fix my pricing or my pricing structure. So there's a pricing guide or

Owen: Yep.

Allan: that, those sorts of things.

Owen: Yeah. So you said it earlier, like the narrow your niche, the more specific in your copy and your content and your pain point and your language. So typically for us, our guys are struggling with time team or money.

Owen: So, you know, these guys are typically pretty like problem aware, but they're very rarely solution aware. So we're quite often trying to need to bridge that gap with, you know, you could do a, you could do B, you could do C, we don't know which one would've would work for you until we actually get to talk to you because general information is quite dangerous.

Owen: We need to be able to give you specific information.

Owen: So it's normally subset of problems by time, by team, or by money generally speaking. And [00:44:00] um, we we have a range of bunch of lead magnets. So, you know, quite old school. But it's working for us.

Owen: I think one of the mistakes that we made previously, before we kind of grew quite aggressively was we tried to optimize everything to the nth degree and we actually had a profitable funnel. It's working well and we just needed to maximize it.

Allan: And how, how elaborate. Are these lead magnets, are they just like a PDF download or are they videos or tutorials or

Owen: Yeah. Generally it, it depends based on kind of the sophistication of the promise, right? So, like, for example, we've got a pricing for profit thing. There's a checklist and a video to support it.

Owen: It's like normally two steps, like opt in, here's your resource, hey, and then a video playing going like, Hey, you know. If this, then that book a call, links below calendar's there. And some people will do that. And if you don't do that, then they're being pixeled and they're being retargeted with middle of funnel content as part of our page strategy.

Owen: And middle of funnel content is a big push for [00:45:00] us at the moment. And this is stuff like um, making 'em kind of like more solution aware, right? So, what does it look like in a game plan? Well, we review your numbers. We try and find your extra hundred thousand dollars in gross profit. We try and work out how to buy back your time we do with these tools and these systems and these things.

Owen: Who is the professional builder? Who do we specialize working with? What does a member look like? What does a bad member look like? You know, what kind of results can you expect? What is a coaching session? What's a group session? What's a performance community? What's a BPC, a business performance check.

Owen: Why do we do it? Kind of all that middle of funnel content, which is quite objection busting. He's like, ah, group coaching won't work for me. Oh, I'm in a small town, so this can't possibly work. I'm in a big city. This won't work. I'm in a recession. This won't work. You know, all those objections as to why, will it work for me?

Owen: Will it work in my situation? Say we just wanna overcome all of that with a retargeting stack and a retargeting audience and a bucket load of social proof. So if you go to our website and then you try and download some stuff and then [00:46:00] you don't book a call, you'll see Yeah, you'll get stalked around the internet.

Owen: For a good. We, well, hopefully. Yeah.

Allan: the opt-in you're asking for email address, phone number, and and are you asking for data on who they are, how many employees, how much revenue, all of that sort of stuff?

Owen: Yeah. So, we're doing stage of business. It's name number, email address and stage of business that you're at. So we have what's called a builder's ladder, and it's like, are you in the startup phase? Are you in the survival phase? Are you in the stability phase?

Owen: Are you in the um, scale phase, the success phase or significance phase And that's just our kind of revenue grouping which helps us to kind of identify whether we're getting better or higher quality applicants than lower quality.

Owen: 'cause we kind of want those people that are in that $1 Million to $4 million revenue range, not like the zero to $500,000 revenue range. So that helps us to inform whether we're getting qualified leads or unqualified leads. And then track the throughput or the intent of a little better through each of the [00:47:00] funnels to work out whether some of the ads or whether some of the funnels work well.

Owen: So, for example we have a 287 point quality control checklist, lead magnet, but that attracts slightly lower size companies. 'cause if you're on the tools looking for a checklist for your quality, you inherently run a slightly smaller company. Then somebody that's looking for the org chart of a $10 million building company, which is another lead magnet.

Owen: So the cost per opt-in and the cost per lead is much higher for what we call whale bait. But the throughput and the conversion and the ideal customer profile of those opt-ins is a lot more attractive for us than filtering through 500 small guys and gals to find a uh, a good fit.

Allan: Yeah. Okay. and so that from that they either book a call with your team or your team will give them a call on the phone. what happens then? Is someone going through this individual situation or is someone

Owen: Yep.

Owen: [00:48:00] If they're booking their own call that's called what internally a triage call and externally a discovery call. So, that's 30 minutes. Well, it's booked for 15. We extend the time to be 30, so there's no back to backs and stuff, and it should ideally go for about 20 to 25 minutes.

Owen: It's called a triage. It's done by an SDR. So I said before we have an MDR that called the people that don't book a call and they book these calls, these triages. We then have an SDR that does the triage about 20 to 25 minutes. Very specific in terms of questioning and line of questioning because it helps us to position ourselves as authorities, helps to qualify them out, qualify them in, demonstrate our value, like all that.

Owen: Then they book a strategy session or a game plan, internally strategy session, externally game plan. That's basically a two hour zoom call, but by the end of that it's contract signed. Deposit paid, and [00:49:00] next session with the coach booked sort of thing. So. Between the triage and their game plan or strategy session.

Owen: There are two pieces of homework that they have to complete. One is that they have to send us a P&L or profit and loss report for the last 12 months or the last job that they quoted. So micro commitment that leads to participation. So participation leads to commitment and it helps us to really unpack and demonstrate our value on the call.

Owen: So we plug their numbers into our dashboard to establish how much time they can buy back and how much extra profit they could make by implementing and using our systems. Then the second piece of homework is for them to do a health audit, which is a method our members go through quarterly and gives them a score out of a hundred and a checklist of the systems that they already have in place, and an understanding of the systems that they could put into place, So produces a PDF report basically. So those two pieces of homework. I [00:50:00] really have them qualified, kind of like consumption of education. And you know, like if you're gonna do those things and you're gonna show up insanely well prepared for the call, you've done your due diligence. You're like, oh, this is kind of serious.

Owen: Right? Ideally we've got the husband and wife there, or all the business partners so they can make a decision. And we're pretty firm on that positioning. Like, you know, we can't possibly help you if we don't know and understand your situation. We'd just be having a chat and we can have chats many other ways, like come along to a webinar, come to one of our events.

Owen: yeah, we're pretty firm on that. But then we've got like best in class sales conversion rates. Our team, I would say are some of the best in the world at what they do. While also providing a lot of value, like their numbers, our dashboard, genuine results.

Owen: Like then the handover to the coach for the first session is very detailed. Like you'll get to the end of their session and it'll be like, okay Allan, we need two so that you can, [00:51:00] we need two so that you can, like, we need to get your marketing pillars in place. We need to understand a form and job description.

Owen: We need to set up a variations and change order process. We need to make sure that there's a daily site log being filled out when you need to do an info pack so that you can position these future projects at higher margins. And we need to inspect your profit and loss report so that we can allocate correct ratios, like boom, super specific prescription.

Owen: And then that basically just gets lifted outta the sales call and given to you in a first session of a coaching call. Like it might sound like a sales call and it is 'cause there's a contract signed, deposit paid, but. You know, we've had people go through those calls, say to us, I got more value out of this sales call than two years of previous coaching with somebody else.

Owen: So like, you know, it's very specific, very thorough. And that's again, why I would say, you know, if you do it all over again, I'd go even more narrow [00:52:00] sort of thing.

Allan: So the sales call is essentially a, like a coaching call on steroids essentially. Because there, there's a view among a lot of people who sell that you shouldn't really teach on a sales call. it should be just about really getting them committed, getting them signed, all of that sort of thing.

Allan: What are your thoughts there?

Owen: Yeah. I think there's truth to that. Like, you're not wanting to sell the plane flight, you're wanting to sell Maui, right? Like, you know, But um, I do believe that people need to understand like what the prescription is, how it'll benefit them. Like what does it actually look like? Like we are dealing with builders. They build physical world that we all live in and they get to see what they actually create. So just saying, oh no, it's gonna be great.

Owen: Don't worry about it. Like this vague, esoteric coaching thing that's not good enough. Like you gotta show people what they're gonna get, how are they gonna get it, how it's relevant to them, how it's being applied by people just like them. So you need to show, not just tell and [00:53:00] you need to prescribe really clearly.

Owen: People want to be led. So I agree that you don't want to teach too much, but you do need to like show, you need to say, we've identified that you need to improve your margin and here's how we're gonna improve your margin. Literally show them resource A, resource B, and resource C, and then pressure test.

Owen: Like, does this make sense? did it look like a different solution to you in your mind? Like, do you see how this would apply to your business? And then you can isolate objection and go, well, it applied to this person's business in this way, how this person like this in this person like this.

Owen: And these are very applicable case studies, applicable solutions to their situation. So yeah, like it's a long call, two and a half, two hours,

Owen: Because we identify where they're at, identify where they wanna get to the roadblocks along that journey, and then how they're gonna get there using these systems and show these systems just like these case studies, and show these case studies.

Owen: And then we get a contract signed, and then we get a [00:54:00] deposit paid, So you know, we pull up the agreement so that you can see it, I can see it, I can read it to you. You understand what you're signing. It's very straightforward. It's like a two page agreement.

Owen: There's nothing untoward in there. So media release form, we got our guarantee in there, and the clauses on that. We got what's included and what's excluded what we're gonna do, what they're gonna do. And then they just go, I wanna pay monthly, or I wanna pay with a discount upfront. Here's my name, here's my number, and we're good to go.

Owen: So it's done on sign request. So like I send it through to you, we pull it up on screen, I walk you through it. I okay it, you okay. It. That gives us immediate access to the membership site, right? So there's no like waiting around or anything. It's like immediate automation. I then, I. Get you to pull up Facebook.

Owen: Hey, I want to introduce you into the Facebook community. I want you to get you in there right now. I'll introduce you 24 hours from now in there, but you can snoop around for a little bit before sort of [00:55:00] thing.

Owen: So it's all very choreographed. It's not two hours of having a chat. It's like we have slides, we have a script like down to the tonality of how you say and deliver stuff. But ultimately, like, yeah there's a lot of like showing, not just telling,

Allan: And um, what percentage would sort of sign there on the spot versus, Hey, I've gotta talk to my wife, I've gotta talk to my business partner. I've gotta think about it. I've gotta whatever. Whatever.

Owen: we reschedule the session if the wife or business partner aren't there. 'cause then we'd just be having a chat. Like, we're not here to have a chat. We're here to help you and help your business. So, very few people reschedule 'cause we just simply don't, I. Do the session unless we are all there. We just identify that early.

Owen: And then in terms of people that convert, like our sales team have a two thirds conversion rate. So 66%. Yeah. This is what I mean. Like we've got kind of, I honestly, I would argue best in class

Allan: agree with that. Yeah.

Owen: process. Yeah. Very proud of our sales [00:56:00] team. Probably one of the major growth engines for us, obviously over the last couple of years.

Owen: But via trial and terror of 10 to 20 years before that, trying to work out how to crack the code on ourselves. Yeah,

Scaling a Coaching Business: Insights and Best Practices
---

Allan: incredible. Well, it's it's a real pleasure going through someone like you who's so open about the business and also what it takes to run a world class coaching and consulting service because I mean, there's so many things you see out there that are like, Hey, just become a coach and just, you know, spit wisdom and we're gonna make tons of money.

Allan: But like behind the curtain what goes into it, some of the systems, the processes and things like that to really scale. I mean there, there's a lot there, right

Allan: Is not a just a simple thing.

Owen: Yeah, no, at scale you've gotta have phenomenal team and really good systems, but ultimately, like people that can build the systems and problem solve. Like one of our biggest values at TB is PSR, so problem solutions [00:57:00] recommendation. I'm sure you've heard many other people talk about it. But it's not until you kind of get your frontline team, the people that are interacting with your members every single day like, it's very hard to do this at scale if you don't know all the details at the front, front of house. 'cause then people just feel like they're just a number in a coaching community.

Allan: Yeah.

Owen: There's no good.

Allan: And in terms of team, are you working with people working from home all over the world or you've got a physical office and people coming to the office or

Owen: Yeah we're, we're hybrid. We're a bit of both. So our main HQ is in Auckland, New Zealand We've got actually probably only. Seven in Auckland and then everybody else is remote. We've got Vancouver, we've got Minnesota, we've got people in south and Central America. We've got people in the Philippines Sydney, gold Coast, Melbourne, your hood around the rest of New Zealand as well.

Owen: So yeah, we've got people all over the show but ultimately like, the hardest [00:58:00] that's kind of playing business on hard mode. So what we've found is we kind of avoid anybody that's outside of the time zone of Western Australia. So like Bali, Indonesia, Singapore, Western Australia, and central or east coast time zone.

Owen: We want people that are Pacific New Zealand and East Coast Australia. 'cause that time zone just helps us to collaborate a lot better and there's plenty of talent in that time zone band. But like, that's the one that works for us so that we don't have to have too much of a division of the teams and we can have company wide communication on a pretty tight feedback loop.

Allan: Nice Owen. That was super, super valuable. I love the detail that you went into, you've built an incredible business. Like I said I was very impressed with your trajectory and what you've been doing. Thank you so much. Is there anything I should have asked you that I didn't ask you?

Owen: I don't think so. I think that we've covered most things. I think that at the risk of making this sound like it's easy it's not like it can be simple, but it's definitely not easy. [00:59:00] I think that execution risk is all of it. So what's applied to us and being our experience might not be other people's.

Owen: So, you know, like there's always nuance to how things are executed and what works for us with our market, with our experience, and with our skillset of what we're good at and what we're bad at might be completely different for somebody else. So, hopefully anybody listening that wants to, you know, the reason I'm so open and very happy to answer any questions if anybody has any is because you know what works for us, you can probably take two or three pieces of, but might not work for you.

Owen: So you've just gotta get the scar tissue yourself and get after it and iterate and innovate and kind of not give up on it, right?

Allan: Amazing. Amazing. And if you're a builder get in touch with Owen and the team. Where would they find you? And

Owen: Yeah. So,

Owen: uh, the

Owen: professional builder.com is our website. We've got our book, the Pro Profitable Builders Playbook coming out took Marty two and a half years to write and distill down 21 years worth of lessons into 13 chapters. So, if you're a [01:00:00] general contractor, a custom builder, or you're looking to, just understand the industry in a bit more detail, then you can go get yourself a copy of that book. Pre-orders are open and you can get it very soon. So I'd go there and pick up a copy.

Allan: Amazing. Thank you so much Owen, and we'll link to all of those resources.

Owen: Awesome. Thank you very much. Been a pleasure. Thanks Allan.

Allan: Thanks for tuning in to the Lean Marketing Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by the Lean Marketing Accelerator. Wanna take control of your marketing and see real results with the accelerator. You get proven strategies, tools, and personalized support to scale your business. Visit lean marketing.com/accelerator to learn how we can help you get bigger results with less marketing.

Allan: And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review or share it with someone who would find it helpful. See you next time.

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