Why Being Memorable Beats Being Everywhere with Oksana Koriakova

[00:00:00] Introduction and Host Welcome

[00:00:00] Oksana: I did the direct mail in COVID. You can't see the people, I was just Australia Post on the wheels. And my business was killed because of direct mail. I turned it around, like I said,What else can give you a hundred percent opening rate? What other media in marketing can give you a hundred percent open rate? I can open any door.

[00:00:23] ​

[00:00:28] Allan: Welcome to the Lean Marketing Podcast.

[00:00:31] Meet Oksana: Marketing Expert

[00:00:31] Allan: I'm your host, Allan Dib, and today I've got with me someone really, really cool, who I've connected with so many times over the years. And every single time I connect with her, I come away inspired. I come away with new ideas, and she's just a lot of fun to talk to.

[00:00:46] Allan: So, welcome Oksana. How are you?

[00:00:49] Oksana: Good. Thank you, Allan for invite.

[00:00:52] Allan: Well, you look younger and more vibrant every time I see you. So, you must be doing something right, but uh, [00:01:00] who are you, who do you do it for? And why should people listen to you?

[00:01:04] Oksana: they have a choice not to listen to me. But every time I meet people, my goal is. To leave them better that I found them. So I always try to bring some value. I've been in marketing for a hundred years and I love marketing. I went to doctors last time and they took my blood and they say marketing.

[00:01:27] Oksana: But I'm very pragmatic, I guess, you know, being Russian, I started my business on very lean budget so I can relate to all of your concepts. And I been running merch company for 22 years and most of the merch end up in the landfill. So I try my hardest to give people unique things and add value in my creativity.

[00:01:53] Oksana: So it's actually works for them rather than end up in the landfill with their logo on it. So this is me.[00:02:00]

[00:02:00] Allan: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So you know, we were talking a little bit earlier and you know, talking about how to introduce you.

[00:02:07] The Power of Physical Gifts in Marketing

[00:02:07] Allan: I know you as kind of the person to go to for lumpy mail, like if you want to get attention, and I think it's such a powerful way to get attention now that digital inboxes are so full and physical inboxes are empty. And as marketers, I'm always looking for what's the underpriced media asset. And I think physical inboxes are very much that, but you're a lot more than that. Like you were saying, you are an expert in human connection and I mean, physical gifts is one way to create that human connection and foster it, and I think it's really powerful.

[00:02:41] Oksana's Journey and Business Insights

[00:02:41] Allan: But how did you get into this? How did you come to the idea of physical gifts as something to get attention, something to foster relationships things to foster connection.

[00:02:53] Oksana: 25 years ago I started, my first business in Australia was hamper company, so I had [00:03:00] a corporate merchandise company with a brilliant name. So I was marketer before I even knew I'm a marketer and the name of the company was Gifts on the Run and the tagline was to bring Joy. because I didn't know anyone, it was my first business, I just went to networking event, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I used to go to opening of envelope, as I say. And people remember me like I had a red outfit. This is my signature color. I had the accent and very passionate. I think Mark Twain said, to succeed in life, you need two things, ignorance and drive.

[00:03:37] Oksana: And I had buckets of both and a lot of passion because. I knew how powerful the gifting is, and I spent so much like my hampers was the most expensive hampers on the market. top quality. And when I meet the people, I give them little suitcase. I make little suitcase, and inside there was a link chocolate and I just [00:04:00] give it to people.

[00:04:01] Oksana: You know, this book that my Bible, now it's a go giver and I would just give it to everyone. It's cost me money, but I met people 20 years later and they remember me, right? And this is the key. Like, I run it for three years and then I rebranded and I started the merch company. It was just the easier business logistically.

[00:04:25] Oksana: If I knew what I know now, I probably will keep it. I'm actually thinking about it three starts and the gifts on the run. In terms of, we try when the digital, this was before digital, before the funnels, before the anything. So when people think, oh, digital gonna save us and they try it and a lot of people succeeded, but I think more people actually burn and it doesn't work because we live in such a noisy environment.

[00:04:54] Oksana: And it's not even about attention now, like five years ago, it's always about, can I [00:05:00] get your attention? You can't get attention on digital because people not paying attention. They just scrolling. But now it's not even about attention.

[00:05:11] The Importance of Personalization

[00:05:11] Oksana: It's about authentic because you cannot scale the relationship.

[00:05:19] Oksana: And we know as a marketers, it's all about one-on-one. I need to know you. And it's not changing the name in your mail, merch, EDM. It's really knowing the customer. And I did the direct mail in COVID. You can't see the people, I was just Australia Post on the wheels. And my business was killed because of direct mail. I turned it around, like I said, don't listen to me. What else can give you a hundred percent opening rate? What other media in marketing can give you a hundred percent open rate? I can open any door.

[00:05:59] Allan: [00:06:00] Yeah.

[00:06:00] Effective Direct Mail Strategies

[00:06:00] Allan: That's one of the things I wrote in my second book, Lean Marketing. I had a section on lumpy mail or sometimes it's called 3D mail. But it's something that comes in the mail that's kind of a pattern interrupt and it pretty much does have a 100% open rate. I mean, we are now, you know, getting to the stage where a 20% or 30% open rate on emails is amazing, right?

[00:06:22] Allan: And so, this is a medium where for very low cost, you know. Like I was we were running a campaign at one stage where we were running Facebook ads to give away a free book. And I can't remember exactly the numbers, but it cost us, I don't know, like 25, $30 to acquire someone to give them a free book.

[00:06:41] Allan: And I'm like, hang on the book to just to post the book to physically to somebody who I find on a list would cost me under $5. So it's crazy that I'm trying to find someone on Facebook or on Meta to send them a free book. I should just get the list of all the people who would be [00:07:00] potentially good candidates and just send it rather than get them to opt in.

[00:07:04] Oksana: Yeah. And this is what I'm saying. It's kind of. Because I've done it for 25 years. I just did, you know, work soft works on this same thing that I did, and now more than ever, and I have a formula and I know I have a system and I know how it works. And then how you nurture the relationship and.

[00:07:24] Oksana: And when you do that, you don't need more clients. Like another thing would I say, people go to networking. I say stop networking. Start monetizing people that you already know. I don't need to meet another Allan. I just need to stay in touch in Allan world and we can create so much more opportunities because we already not starting from.

[00:07:47] Oksana: What's your name? What do you do? We have relationships, and this is every single, in my experience, and this is why I have an opinion every single sale that I ever met was [00:08:00] attached to the person. I don't do digital. I don't know how to do it well. you need a lot of money, and you need a person who is amazing and outstanding.

[00:08:10] Oksana: Most of the digital guys, they sell you the hope. This is why so many people been burned and wasted money and say, digital doesn't work. It does work. Everything works. If you know how, if you don't know how to use the hammer, you'll have blood on your fingers. So same with digital. Same with merch Same with swag.

[00:08:34] Oksana: Taylor Swift sold 66 million worth of merchandise at your two shows in Sydney. And every single band make more money selling merch than selling. You know, the amount they get for the tickets of the show, because people crave experience. They wanna take you away home. how they gonna take you home?

[00:08:58] Oksana: What is your thing that they [00:09:00] can reminder of Allan or experience or conference you went in.

[00:09:05] Allan: Well, the analogy I sometimes give is you know, let's say it's your anniversary and you send a text message to your partner saying, you know, I love you. Happy anniversary versus her favorite bunch of flowers with a handwritten card. Big, big difference. You know, they're both nice but one has a much bigger impact than the other.

[00:09:26] Oksana: It's all about impact. And also in terms of knowing your customer, we can't assume that Christmas is important for everyone. We need to know Allan, what dates are important for you because I like to do things absolutely opposite maybe it's my upbringing, because they try to ask to look the same thing, the same.

[00:09:46] Oksana: And I thought the only thing I ever wanted to do in life, it's do not comply. So like, with Christmas and everyone doing Christmas gifts, I'm like, why? Why would I wanna do the gift that get lost? And [00:10:00] I, you know, in hundred other gifts I'm a marketer, I can create campaign that get such an impact.

[00:10:08] Oksana: And it's, if you wanna impact, you definitely not do it when everyone else is doing it. It's just common sense.

[00:10:15] Creating Impactful Client Relationships

[00:10:15] Allan: So to get a bit practical, so let's say we're on board with the idea of sending something physical in the mail to our clients, or to prospects to potentially open the door. Probably the two biggest scenarios where you might want to send something physical in the mail is number one, to get attention from a high value prospect.

[00:10:32] Allan: So someone who's not a client already. But the other one is to, you know, just give love to our clients. Like send them something physical in the mail, remind them that we are thinking of them, something personalized as well. So to get practical, what are you thinking about? Like something custom and different for each person.

[00:10:52] Allan: Are you doing something that's kind of just unusual but the same to the whole list? How do you go about it? If someone was to [00:11:00] hire you and say, all right, I'm open to this. What should we do?

[00:11:03] Oksana: Always depends how much impact you wanna create because the big impact, the bigger noise, because people will talk about it, right?

[00:11:13] Allan: Mm.

[00:11:14] Oksana: But firstly, people not gonna talk about if it's boring. Nobody talk about boring movies. And secondly, if it's not impactful, they're like, oh, it's nice, you know, you bought a house and they send you hamper.

[00:11:26] Oksana: Oh, it's given, right? But my Ruhlin is 80%, let's say, to scale it because you need to be able to scale it. If you have, you know, 200 people, you, firstly, you don't do it at once, like you have to have, it's part of your customer journey of having a conversation. And what's the next step is if you are opening the door, that gift that you're sensing.

[00:11:51] Oksana: You probably need to spend a lot of time researching, understanding this purple person so you have an impact. And then what's the next [00:12:00] step is some people say, I send them this and nothing happened. I said, what was the next step? Did you tell them I'm sending you this because I'll be calling you? Or we need to guide them on the customer journey.

[00:12:12] Oksana: So before we send anything, we have to design, you know, what's the purpose and what are the steps from I want to target them so they become my client to the point is they are your client. Is it six months process?

[00:12:29] Oksana: Let's say they like golf. You find out that they like golf because you have to do research. You cannot guess it. Because you saw the post on LinkedIn and then he said he's a member of golf club and golf You have to do the research. This is where if you have data, let's look at data.

[00:12:44] Oksana: If you have opinion, let's go with mine. We can find out so much information nowadays to make it personal so much. Then you send the gift if it's opening the door, and [00:13:00] then you do the touch points. So if your outcome is to get the meeting and then what's the next, and if it's existing clients like you can do, I call it like it's still 80 20 Ruhlins.

[00:13:14] Oksana: What is my campaign for my existing clients? Firstly, you know that all animals are equal, but some animals are all equal than more equal than others. Same apply to your clients. So you have your first class clients, you have your business class clients and economy class clients. Activity might be the same.

[00:13:35] Oksana: You sending them something, but the value of their thing would be different. Like when you fly on the plane, everyone having a different experience and different impact on the same plane. Depends what kind of ticket they book. And then we keep the 80% as a solid, let's say whatever the gift is.

[00:13:58] Oksana: But [00:14:00] we add the customization or what we write on the card or how we wrap it if we know the favorite color of the person. So if this is your purple, is your favorite color, guess what? Your gift will be wrapped in purple. Why? Because purple for Allan will create more impact.

[00:14:21] Allan: Hmm.

[00:14:22] Oksana: and again, I always say you can't scale a relationship and the second thing you cannot scale is gifting.

[00:14:29] Oksana: And John in Giftology. Was talking about it. It's need to be, you can't guess it, you have to know.

[00:14:38] Allan: Yeah John Ruland passed away about a year or year and a half ago or something like that. It was very sad, but he was, he wrote a great book, Giftology excellent. And he was big in the gifting game. How do you make it not feel transactional where, I mean, you are sending something potentially of high value to somebody who's a prospect.

[00:14:59] Allan: Obviously, you want to [00:15:00] open the door to a conversation. How do you make it feel, not like, you know, just a transactional thing. I'm sending you this thing because I want something from you.

[00:15:09] Oksana: I believe in ethical sales. if I decided I wanna work with you when I have a reason. The only reason I do that ethically because I know I can add value because I've seen you doing that. I've been to the exhibition and you've seen you spend in Fortune and you're drinking and you're giving out so much merch, I can guarantee it's not working for them.

[00:15:32] Oksana: They're not getting the ROI, they're not getting impact, but they're spending the money.

[00:15:39] Allan: Hmm.

[00:15:39] Oksana: And why they're not getting anything. Not because they're not doing anything, they're just doing it wrong. So if I say, I really like this guy, I really like this company. They have a right values, I would love to work with them because it's not, it has to be win-win.

[00:15:55] Oksana: And I know I can add value. Then I send you the thing and [00:16:00] I said, Allan, I, this is the reason I wanna have conversation, but for me to have this conversation, I need your attention. So the opening door, you know the book, another book, how to Have a Meeting with Anyone. You can open the door so they can understand why you having the conversation, right?

[00:16:20] Oksana: I have a marketing campaign when I send Roka dos, you know, for six weeks, and I don't tell them anything. So I tell, I take them on the journey of excitement. What's going on? Wow, who is it? And then on the last. You know, mail out. I said to them, how did you enjoy this experience? And they go, tell me more.

[00:16:42] Oksana: How did you come up with this? And then I tell them the story. I don't need to tell them anything. They just experience the journey. So I said, if you would like to replicate the same journey for your customers or prospects, I would love to have a conversation and find out what it's gonna look like.

[00:16:59] Oksana: [00:17:00] Certainly I'm not for everyone. When people come to me and they want a boring product, cheapest product that fall apart I'm not for them. They need to go to different company. I don't wanna sell anything. I wanna add value and make sure I do something for the customer. That works, not just tick in the boxes.

[00:17:21] Oksana: Oh, we did Christmas gifts, we spent 20 grand. How is it working for you? Did anyone call you? Did anyone say no? What? Show me what you sent. And I'm like, if you received that, what do you call? Is this impactful? is it thoughtful? Is it useful? Is it practical? So this this is what's missing because a lot of time, you know, they just, oh, let's print some charity cards

[00:17:43] Allan: Hey, it's Allan here, ready to dive deeper into today's marketing insights? Head over to lean marketing.com/podcast. To get a full summary of today's episode, including all of the resources mentioned, go to lean marketing.com/podcast. Now, back to the [00:18:00] show.

[00:18:00] Allan: I mean, you know, the, like you said, not something boring, not the water branded water bottle or whatever.

[00:18:07] Practical Examples of Successful Campaigns

[00:18:09] Allan: What are some examples of things that you've done in the past that have cut through and gotten attention?

[00:18:13] Oksana: I had the fruit campaign that I deliver. Obviously, you need to know your customer. These people were in Sydney, so one week. It was a card with saying are you looking to bring some fun into your marketing? and then we have some fresh ideas, and I send it with a box of lemons, real lemons.

[00:18:34] Oksana: Then a week later, I send them the card that says, we are passionate about marketing, and I send them passion fruits. The next one was, have you ever had a marketing campaign that goes pear shaped? And I send them pears. And the last one is, if you wanna spice up your marketing, let us be the cherry on top.

[00:18:54] Oksana: And I send them cherry. I never mentioned that I have a merch [00:19:00] company. It's not about the product. It's about would this create impact? And then you look who is the client. Be creative, be different. Like last year I did Herbies the spicy boxes for cooking because I said it's a slow time. Here's something for slow cooking.

[00:19:19] Oksana: Enjoy Christmas. It's got like six different herbies inside all the different spices with the recipe. Whole year I had all my customers sending me the pictures of the food they're cooking with the saying, Oksana we thinking of you. And then they will last maybe three years. But it's relevant.

[00:19:41] Oksana: Now. I'm making sit towel with a little love hug saying everything changes with the right people connect. So bring your brand personality like instead of Ana with love. So it's got a little bit of me, but it has to be [00:20:00] practical. If you want bigger impact. Get something into the kitchen.

[00:20:05] Oksana: People spend 70% of their time in the kitchen. You don't need to brand it. Buy the most expensive item in the category that you can afford, because if you buy them, I don't know, garlic squasher, go buy the most expensive one. Because normally people, psychologically, they cut corners on utilities and they think, oh, it's not worth it.

[00:20:32] Oksana: But if you get a gift, you go, Oh my God, this is impactful. You know, you can spend $300 taking clients for dinner, or you can give them, if they like black caviar, you can give them scene of caviar and it would be much better impact.

[00:20:49] Allan: Totally. I remember that was a tip from John Ruhlin, and he used to say, you know, whatever your budget is, like, let's say it's $200 for the client, buy them the best in the category rather than a [00:21:00] cheap version of like, don't buy a $200 watch because you're just gonna get a cheap, crappy watch.

[00:21:06] Allan: Get them a $200 pen, you know, which is kind of gonna be

[00:21:09] Oksana: exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. And you can find whatever budget you have. Just find the best in the category because this is where impact come from. nobody want cheap stuff. I don't want cheap stuff. You don't want cheap stuff. So why? Even when people say, oh, this is what we're gonna buy, I said, buy, nothing would be much better for your brand.

[00:21:32] Allan: Yeah, that's true. The other mistake that people make and this was something I learn as well, is. You have their name on it, not your name on it. People often send branded bottles, branded pens or whatever. I don't want a pen with someone, some random company's logo and their name or whatever, but someone sends a pen to me with my name engraved on it.

[00:21:55] Allan: I'm probably keeping that.

[00:21:57] Oksana: Yeah, this is one of the things I. I actually [00:22:00] wrote a post about it on LinkedIn. I said, imagine you hosting a dinner party and you prepare and you invited your best friends and table is served, and then you bring champagne glasses with a, b, c mortgage log on. It would you do it? Would you do it?

[00:22:17] Oksana: I would do it. So, Give them glasses. Right? You don't need to like people think the logo, your logo have a meaning something for someone. No, it's not. It was a perfect jacket and then you put X, Y, Z company logo on it. Suddenly, I don't want it. Right? But they, people said, but they have to, they'll remember me know that they're not what, did your grandma ever give you a gift?

[00:22:44] Oksana: I ask them. Did she have your log on her on the gift? Did she put No. How do you know? It's from grandma? You give it to the people who you have relation, like they know who you are. And another thing, it is a difference between [00:23:00] a gift and a promo product.

[00:23:04] Allan: Hmm.

[00:23:04] Oksana: Gift is about the receiver. It's all about the person, and the promo product is his umbrella with my logo.

[00:23:14] Oksana: You can sometimes people hide it. Oh, it's a gift. No, it's not you giving me the branded with your logo item. It's have a different functionality than you giving me the gift of flowers that I love. it's or favorite brand of chocolate. Buy the best chocolate if they chocolate lovers. The best you can afford because

[00:23:40] Oksana: Cadbury not gonna make an impact, right?

[00:23:46] Oksana: which, if you have $50 buy, I don't know, buy cocoa black. They go, wow, this is impactful. This is quality.

[00:23:54] Allan: Well, speaking of Cho, I mean, I love the 85% dark chocolate, not cocoa black. [00:24:00] I have a different brand. There's one made in Melbourne called Hunted and Gathered. So that's my chocolate. Uh, It's

[00:24:06] Oksana: see, You see, imagine this is the information I didn't even need to ask you. So this is information that people should collect because when it's your birthday or out of the blue. You can say out of the blue, I call it plan randomness strategy. I planned it all 20 months in advance. If I send you something, how would you feel?

[00:24:30] Allan: Yeah, true.

[00:24:31] Oksana: But we have to, we have to listen. Active listening and you know, people say, what do you do for a living? I said, not much. I just pay attention. And the moment you start paying attention, people tell you what they like, what they sport, they like, what, how they spend their time. If they'll go to the beach, give them best beach towel with the best sunscreen and a bucket, guess what?

[00:24:55] Oksana: For 90 days you sort it. They think about you all the time and they're gonna talk [00:25:00] about like people actually gonna do your marketing for you. I think it's just so cheap if you do it right. You have a hundred people raving about you. While you're not doing anything,

[00:25:15] Allan: The other thing, I mean, often depends on the object, but certain physical objects, especially if it is something personal, if it is something high value never get thrown out, but just when I do gifting, I often think. Would someone have this on their desk working forever?

[00:25:34] Allan: Right.so sometimes I'll get a very high quality desk toy or something like that. It'll be on their desk forever, potentially. And so, you know, sometimes they might keep it or whatever. Another category of that I think is books. It's feels like almost like a sin to throw out a book. So especially if it's a book that's relevant to them, it'll sit on their shelf.

[00:25:57] Allan: Bonus points if you wrote the book. That's a good thing [00:26:00] to do as well. So there are certain things that just won't get thrown out. And if you put it in a little bit of thought, it makes the world of difference to the person. Just remembering you every time they see or interact with that pro, with that object.

[00:26:14] Allan: And I love the idea of something in the kitchen, because you're right, I mean. At least a few times a day, you're in the kitchen, you're making stuff. I remember John Ruland would say, would send like, engraved knives and he would have the family name on it rather than just the person who's who it's going to because your wife, you know, if you're sending it to a man, his wife will use that all the time and think of you as well.

[00:26:36] Allan: And so you're impacting not only just the person, but the important people in that person's life.

[00:26:42] Oksana: You give them the tools to talk about U-Haul, you create whole family experience. And on the note of at the desk, sending them something for the desk, as long as we know they are at the desk, because if they are Uber driver or [00:27:00] limousine driver, right? So it's why it's so important. You need to know where your customer is.

[00:27:06] Oksana: Because then if it's a bus driver it's no use for them. But the backpack will be very impactful

[00:27:14] Allan: Yeah.

[00:27:16] Oksana: So this is why suddenly the conversation never become, you know, I got 20,000 products and if we don't have it, we can create it. It's never about the product. It's never about the budgets and stuff.

[00:27:30] Oksana: I always say, if you see this person on the street, would you buy them a coffee? And if the is yes, you can put something in the mail that cost you 10 bucks and you actually don't need to have a coffee, so you sell yourself two hours of your time.

[00:27:46] Allan: Yeah.

[00:27:47] Oksana: I think it's so cheap. And then some people you say, would I buy this person a lunch if you haven't seen your clients for 90 days?

[00:27:54] Oksana: You haven't been for lunch. Guess what? They don't remember you. [00:28:00] Everyone busy. So it's your job. Remind them that or just care, like I think Gary V said, best marketing is care. If we just look at it this way, if we get to be curious, you know, five languages of love. Ask your clients, take a test. You'll have data what they like.

[00:28:25] Oksana: Do they like a handwritten word of appreciation or do they like physical touch or quality time? Then this is the first people you invite to your event or they like gifts. They just told you, send them gifts every 90 days. Send them something.

[00:28:43] Allan: Yeah, I totally agree.

[00:28:45] Oksana: I think people don't do it from my experience because they don't have a system.

[00:28:49] Oksana: They start thinking week before, two weeks before, oh my God time running out. What are we gonna give them for Christmas? What are we gonna

[00:28:59] Allan: [00:29:00] Yes.

[00:29:00] Oksana: You know, no thought, no strategy. They just do something just to tick the box. And I'm like. Don't pressure yourself. Don't fix the book

[00:29:08] Oksana: because it's got no impact. Like why would you do it? Spend the money and you get no impact. I think it's a better way, like if you run online program, you know, how do you onboard them? Imagine you can send them amazing books full of experience that gonna help them the journey of your 90 days or six months or one year program.

[00:29:30] Oksana: So amazing and exciting. Mm, we never thought about it. Here's the thought.

[00:29:38] Long-Term Relationship Marketing

[00:29:38] Allan: I mean, relationship marketing is really about the long game, right? We were talking about this a little bit before we hit record. We were, you know, it took me 10 years to become an overnight success, right? So, it's not about. Okay, we're gonna do this 1, 2, 3 quick tactic and then we're gonna get this ROI straight away.

[00:29:57] Allan: Although sometimes that does happen or [00:30:00] sometimes an ROI does happen quickly but the mindset is this is a longer term strategy. We are working with high value people. We're gonna put in time, effort, we're gonna customize and we're gonna put thought in into it.

[00:30:13] Oksana: A hundred percent. It's gardening, This is like your business or foundation. You prepare the soil. You went to nursery, you decided you bought the seeds. If you good gardener, you probably know which seeds to buy, depends on the soil, depends on the sun. Then you planted the seeds.

[00:30:32] Oksana: You don't come next day and go, where's my oranges?

[00:30:36] Allan: Yeah.

[00:30:37] Oksana: You plant the seeds and you water them and some will, you know, sprout faster. And you get the benefit of them, you know, giving you the flowers. Some will exactly the same. Exactly the same. Some will be longer term, more watering. Some of them will look dead, [00:31:00] and then suddenly you give them maybe wrong position.

[00:31:03] Oksana: And some of them you have to plant every year. Tomatoes you plant every year, you have to plant every year, tro every year. But Some of them you plant once in a lifetime and 10 years later you have a apple tree

[00:31:19] Allan: That's

[00:31:19] Oksana: And then if you become very good gardener, you know, it's a thing called symbiosis in botanic terms.

[00:31:27] Oksana: And it's when you actually put the right plants together, the outcome is better because like this particular plant get, get eaten by these bugs. But if you plant another plant next to them, the smell will keep the bugs away. So you don't need a spray, but you need to know who to match to give the better outcome.

[00:31:51] Oksana: So the, in business it's called collaboration. You don't need to start, if you need 20 new clients you can go and find them or you [00:32:00] can go, who else got my clients? And they say, Allan, I have the idea, this is what I do is anyone in your world will benefit from that. And because we have trust and relationship, you go, let me think about it.

[00:32:17] Oksana: This is your symbiosis of magic happens you don't need to do. And it's also sometimes you plant something and it's look like a flower and it's actually weed. So you have to be very skillful as well to make sure that you pull them out at the right time. Otherwise, they suck all the soil, all the nutritionists, and never give you any fruit.

[00:32:40] Oksana: So this is, you also need to understand and make sure you bring the right people into your world. You know, people that share the same values, people that, I don't know, whatever your values are, some people. You know, time is not important, or quality is not important [00:33:00] and doesn't matter. I'm not saying it should be, but I wanna work with people.

[00:33:03] Allan: I totally agree. I love your approach, Oksana. I always enjoy talking to you.

[00:33:09] Conclusion and Contact Information

[00:33:09] Allan: So, um, where can we direct people that sold on your approach? Where can people connect with you and we'll of course link that in the show notes.

[00:33:16] Oksana: I do have emails, so if you wanna email me, I'm ana@imper.com au. Most of the time I live on LinkedIn, so you can find me on LinkedIn.

[00:33:27] Oksana: And ask me anything. I love what I do. I've done it for so long and I'm not planning to stop.

[00:33:34] Allan: Perfect. Well, thank you, Oksana It's always a treat to speak to you and we'll connect again real soon.

[00:33:40] Oksana: Yes, stay in touch.

[00:33:42] Allan: Thanks for tuning in to the Lean Marketing Podcast. This podcast is sponsored by the Lean Marketing Accelerator. Wanna take control of your marketing and see real results with the Accelerator. You get proven strategies, tools, and personalized support to scale your business. Visit lean [00:34:00] marketing.com/accelerator to learn how we can help you get bigger results with less marketing.

[00:34:06] Allan: And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review or share it with someone who would find it helpful. See you next time.

‍