The Trust Edge: How to Get Customers to Say "Yes" with David Horsager

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David: The reason people follow leader or not is trust. It's not a sales issue at the core. The reason people buy has something to do with trust. Marketing is the same thing. The only way to amplify a marketing message is to increase trust in that message

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Allan: So welcome to the Lean Marketing Podcast. My name is Allan Dib. I am your host. Lean marketing is all about getting bigger results by doing less marketing and less stuff. Today, I'm privileged to have David Horsager as our guest.

Now, the reason I was really keen to get David on the podcast is because he is a world leading expert on trust. He's written multiple books on the topic. In fact, a new book comes out today, Trust Matters More Than Ever, out today. Congratulations, David.

David: Thank you so much, Allan.

Allan: Of Course, and you're well known as the author of the Trust Edge, which found fascinating because trust is like, hey, it's a feeling.

It's this thing that you can't really put [00:01:00] your finger on or figure out why you trust someone versus someone else, but you've actually codified it and you've identified eight different areas that help create trust. So, maybe if you could introduce yourself a little bit and anything that I've missed and and we can, Go from there,

David: Well, Allan, I think a lot of your work, I think there's a lot of alignment in what you think about getting really one of our pillars of clarity, like you, the One-Page Marketing Plan, like you help people get clear so they can do more and really do the most important things, so, thank you, it's a treat to be on with you, you know, we met in Nashville and now we get to keep, becoming friends, but I sure align with who you are and your work, and I appreciate that, so thank you so much.

But my work, started a couple decades ago, 1999, you know, I was one of the first to research and show the bottom line impact of trust in my grad work and several books and the work we do with companies on six continents.

But fundamentally, the first half of the research showed how lack of trust the biggest cost in companies and basically [00:02:00] how at the core, I hope without ego, but a whole lot of research and work that it's not the issue many people think it is. So for example, I don't think it's a leadership issue at the core.

The reason people follow leader or not is trust. It's not a sales issue at the core. The reason people buy has something to do with trust. Marketing is the same thing. The only way to amplify a marketing message is to increase trust in that message.

Innovation only goes up when people trust each other, otherwise someone won't share an idea. They won't be creative because they don't trust everyone. diversity, equity, inclusion. The biggest Harvard study shows that in some ways it diversity or pits people against each other unless we increase trust, then we can get benefits out of it.

So first half kind of showed how a lack of trust is the biggest cost and I don't trust. So I put a lock on something. Well, what's the cost of that? I got to buy the lock. That's money, but the big cost is time. I got to open it every time I go through the gate or open the mailbox or whatever.

So. If we can deal with trust, we deal with the core issues. That is the first half. And the second half, of course, gets into how do we build it, which I'm happy to [00:03:00] talk about. It's the eight pillars of trust, that framework.

And then this new book Trust Matters More Than Ever, has the 40 tools. To lead better, grow faster, and build trust now. And that's tools, tips, takeaways in three pages each that you can use tomorrow morning. And,

Allan: I'm really looking forward to it because As you say, I mean, trust is the core of sales and marketing. If you don't have trust, you can have every amazing tactic. You can do everything right.

And it's not going to work. I went over your eight pillars of trust and the ones that really stood out to me is number one, clarity and number four, which is competency. People have confidence in those who are capable, who do things well. Are they all equal terms of your pillars or are there ones that really stand out more or are more important, are weighted?

David: To gain this, thing that we've come to call the Trust Edge, it's all eight in the way we define them. But, they are weighted, there's two ways they need to be contextualized. [00:04:00] Number one for instance one of the pillars is character. And by the way, they start with C's, but they're research based, so don't think of some motivational list of eight C's, that's clarity, but they really represent important research funnels.

And they are all different. But let's take competency for example. I might want my pilot to be very high on competency and I don't care about their character on the weekend as much or their compassion toward others. I'd like it if they had that, but I need competency to get that on flying a plane.

Whereas the babysitter of my kids or nanny, I might want to make sure they have compassion and they have the character pillar, right? and there's also contextualization globally for where I might start or you know, if I'm dealing with, corporate issues or sales issues or policing issues or corruption issues in East Africa or something with the president of a country.

So, I might start in Latin America, often with the connection pillar because they might want to [00:05:00] start there. Whereas in Norway, they might want to see results. The seventh pillar, which is contributing results before they'll ever connect with you. This doesn't mean Norwegians don't want connection.

And it doesn't mean Latin Americans, Latinos don't want resuLts.. It's just where they might start, but all eight were relatively equal in the overall research. And yet, what I said is true. Also there's waiting at times, so we measure them, in organizations.

Allan: That makes total sense. So, if someone's starting from the beginning, they're like, look, I need to increase trust with my buyers and often we'll find that, they've got a good product, good service or whatever else. And their close rate is not where it should be or not where they want it to be.

And the issue is often trust that they haven't established that trust. They haven't created a connection. How do you do that on, over a phone call, over an email interaction over, these kinds of non in-person because in-person it's a lot easier to show your character, your [00:06:00] personality, all of those sorts of things.

David: I even have five steps in the new book to how to build trust virtually,

Allan: Oh, wow.

David: for context, These are the pillars and there's so much more to them. So you hear these eight and you're like, Oh, I got it. But if we don't have a common language, then it's hard to define the real issue.

So, number one is clarity. People trust the clear and they mistrust or distrust the ambiguous or the overly complex. We lose clarity. We lose trust. Number two is compassion. We trust those that care beyond themselves. Even if they don't care about me, if they don't care about some mission or person beyond themselves, we don't tend to trust them.

We don't want to be accountable to them. Number three is character. Of course, we trust those that do what's right over what's easy, but that's not everything. I might trust Allan to take my kids to the ballgame because of character and compassion, but not trust him to give me a root canal. because of competency, which is the one you brought out, which is trusting people to stay fresh and relevant and capable.

in the sales and marketing world that you're in, especially, you've got to stay fresh and relevant and capable and [00:07:00] competent in at least three areas, people skills, sales and marketing skills and the specific product or service that you are trying to sell or market. And so that's competency, that's staying fresh, and I can give some very specific tips and takeaways on how to do that.

The next pillar is commitment. We trust those that stay committed in the face of adversity. This is where we find how to rebuild trust, by the way. The 10 step process for how do you rebuild it if you've had an oil spill or if you've had a moral failure, how do you rebuild trust?

But it comes down to one thing and that is you have to make and keep a new commitment. It's not the apology. Next pillar is connection, the willingness and ability to connect and collaborate with others.

So if I go into an organization and see siloing, I know that's a counter force to trust, so connection. The next pillar, seventh pillar, is contribution, and it's really contributing results. you can't just have compassion and connection, you've got to deliver results. And if I go in for surgery, and let's say it's [00:08:00] amputation, you cut off the wrong leg, we've got a problem, it doesn't matter how compassionate you are, you've got to deliver results.

The final pillar is consistency, that sameness. We trust sameness and this matters to sales and marketing folks because the only way to build a reputation is consistency. The only way to build a brand is consistency. It's sameness for good or bad. So consistency matters and that's what we, when we talk about your marketing messages that you give her plans or sales, you got to create consistency there. And it's a lot of what you do. And we're able to do, with a One-page Marketing Plan. So, that's the eight.

And the only reason I want to give those before we dig anywhere you want to go is that when we understand these eight are the core issue, I can solve against those instead of saying things like, oh, it's leadership. It's engagement.

it's never is an engagement or a net promoter score issue.

It's actually a clarity issue. Or, David, it's, isn't it ever communication? You like C words, right? It never is. It's the type. Clear communication is trusted. Unclear isn't. Compassionate is trusted. Hateful isn't. [00:09:00] High character is trusted. Lying isn't. So if I go through these eight, now I have a common language.

And in a simple form, without the tools even, let's take one, a marketing message that one of your mentees is wanting to give. Without all the assessments, we have six different assessments to assess on trust, but just in our mind, just one out of ten, if I take that message and I say, 1 out of 10. Is it crystal clear? about a 7. Is it compassionate to the people we care about? Yeah, 10. Is it connect with them? Is it show our competency in the picture? Is it consistent with our brand? Does it show the results we give because that markets.

Okay. Yep. 7 out of 10, and I can just simply run it through the 8 and get to where, Oh, that's a powerful message. It's not clear, you know, a trusted message, right? So, that's a quick glimpse.

you asked the question, where would I start to build trust?

I would either start with where we measured it, through one of the assessments or your gut like I just gave you and if you don't know where to start then I would start with [00:10:00] clarity because you can always do something about clarity and see results within two weeks.

Most people have a clarity issue because time is going, noise is happening and that's why your One-page Marketing Plan is so great because it gives clarity.

Allan: That's the number one piece of feedback I get is, Hey, it give me clarity and. You're 100 percent right. I often say a confused mind says no, right? When people feel like if they have a confused message that the person will seek more information or contact them or try and find out more and nothing could be further from the truth.

They usually just it's a shut off. It's like I'm not gonna try and figure out a confusion. And I also like, consistency. I think that's so important. So often, there was the kind of, I'll probably butcher the phrase, but it's like what you do speak so loud. I can't hear what you say.

So.

David: This is and by the way, you don't have to like something to trust it Like I might not like McDonald's but I've had the same burger on six continents I trust like that consistency is like but I know what I'm gonna [00:11:00] get here, right?

Allan: Yes. Yes. Knowing what you're gonna get, I think is so important. And for example maybe a couple of year and a half ago shopping for a web developer. So I went to their website. And like nine out of 10 were horrible websites.

Slow, clunky, didn't work well. And I'm like, this is his website. you know, so there's definitely a consistency problem. Instantly lost my trust. okay. So clarity is a great place to start. I, I 100 percent agree consistency. Absolutely. I mean, all eight super important. So when you've got a short amount of time, like, you're on a sales call for the first time with a prospect what tools are you using to establish that trust in a short amount of time in a virtual kind of environment?

David: Let's take clarity. the first tool that I give whether I'm a leader sharing a message with my team or a Salesperson sharing a message with a prospective buyer marketing person, I want my team to run any message through MRA. Is that message memorable? Is it [00:12:00] repeatable and is it actionable? Memorable, repeatable, actionable, MRA. So I'm taking messages. There's a story I tell in one of my books about Caribou Coffee. This might not be relevant where you are, but they went to number two to Starbucks in North America for a decade, and then they lost again.

And part of it was they had a super clear message that helped their baristas live out what they believed. And then they grew so much that they overcomplicated things and they pulled that and, everything, you know tanked. when we get a message, we take a narrow down and get it to clear, memorable, repeatable, actionable, that we can actually use it, apply it.

You know, in marketing, a lot of people think clever wins. I don't agree. I think clarity wins. I was being driven to an event by a CEO. I was speaking at their event. We drove by all these stores and one store was packed full of people. It was jam packed. And I thought, wow, everybody knows exactly why to go to that store.

And it was one word above this [00:13:00] store front, it was big, bright, bold letters, and it was liquor. But it wasn't like clever, have fun in spirits, drink well, blah, blah. It was boom. And there's a, little anecdote in this book of this lady wanted to have this fun little peaceful hair salon.

So she called it Whispers on Main. Nobody knew why to go. She changed it to Best Cuts by Barb. Okay. And, people got it. So MRA is one. On the sales call, or the call you're talking about, the other tool I'll give is what we call the relevancy questions. Two relevancy questions.

You're always answering the relevancy questions for your client. And that is the relevancy questions are, So what this means to you is, so it makes us think in our message. And the second one is, so what this means to you now is right now is, so many people, they ramble along about like, But this widget does this and this is really, it doesn't matter.[00:14:00]

So if I can take that message and say, Oh, what that means to me, Hey, we're doing this big research. Oh we have a new website. So what this means to you is you can do this, and this. Now we've got this, I'm going to be with you on this project. So what this means to you is you won't be alone. If you have a problem, we're going to pivot on it.

So what this means to you is it seems simple. I'm telling you. If every time you get on that call and you think of, Oh, so what this means to the client, it becomes relevant to them. So that's, a second clarity idea. And there are many more.

Allan: The other thing I've noticed is, I mean, the sales calls that work really well are the ones that are very diagnostic because I heard a good phrase, beware the doctor who gives you a prescription without doing a diagnosis. so many sales calls will just launch into this is why it's so good, this is why you need it, this is why you should buy it, all of these features and benefits and so on and so forth.

and the person is like, Hey, you don't even know my situation. You haven't even heard what I've got to say. You haven't heard what problem I've got. You're prescribing me [00:15:00] something without a diagnosis.

David: I just pulled it up here, page 185. Tool number 25 is called curious questions. And the tool is about exactly what you're talking about, going from two types of questions, from discovery, diagnosis, to solution.

So, like, discovery examples would be something like this. What would exceptional look like?

What's your biggest worry right now? What are you loving about this process? That's diagnosis. Of course we can diagnose with. measurement tools and assessments, which we do. But in that call, it's got to be done with conversational questions. We call them curious questions. And so there's ideas of curious questions.

What's the biggest hope you have on this new initiative? And then we have a process to go to solution questions because actually some people stay in discovery too long and they feel sold. They feel like, come on, I want help. And so it is true exactly what you said, Allan. Like start with discovery questions.

[00:16:00] But move to solution questions. So, who needs to be included in this conversation? How could we leverage their strength to help with the solution? how would we start solving this initiative or what, whatever. So that's just I don't know, we talk about that one, but you are basically a lead in of that is the process for what you're talking about.

Allan: I think that's incredibly important to create trust because again, like somebody giving you a solution or a diagnosis without listening to you Instantly breaks trust. David, lot of times and it's kind of was a big concept in Robert Cialdini book, Persuassion is what is some of the trust elements that. have to happen before someone even gets onto a call with you or connects with you. So, I'm thinking like, for example, website, online presence, social media, nine times out of 10, someone's already researched you online before they ever submit a contact form or before they ever speak to one of your sales people or get on a chat with someone.

[00:17:00] What are your thoughts around tools to create trust before somebody ever even connects with you?

David: Well, anything that builds these eight pillars, It matters. And I'm not trying to just say with C words here, but on a website, you're trying to create curiosity and give credibility without being arrogant, right? So that, credibility is. I just saw a study recently that showed how reviews that I can trust, now this is a big trust thing, I talk about the history of trust and what's happening to trust in our world and how institutional trust is tanking and how people don't trust reviews anymore because so many of them are false or bought but still the number one reason people buy something new that they haven't touched or, use themselves is a referral or reference. So, what this means to listeners is your website still needs to have. referrals or references with people they trust So in my case, it could be people saying the president of that [00:18:00] company saying, David helped us do this.

Like, we have this, some case studies where, you know, the Admiral said we helped them drop suicide rates with trust. This company said we helped them triple sales with trust. We had a company that helped them gain 50 Fortune 50 company that we helped gain 11 percent market share when they shifted thinking to trust.

We've had engagement go up with trust. Like, those are true. those are ways that we get more business because they see what we have done before recently. What we've done when they shifted their thinking to trust. So that's a credibility play of references. Number two would be credibility.

Maybe it's research. We do a big study every year. Maybe it's books, like you've written great books. maybe it's what people said and then maybe it's valid research. I mean I have written in Harvard Business Review gives some credibility. that I have a Simon Schuster Wall Street best selling book that's vetted, that gives some credibility.

But there's a better kind that happens when it even isn't you saying it or you making it about you. So it's both [00:19:00] of those sides help. And then the third piece of that getting credibility is an experience with you. So in my site, for example, one of the several things I do, I have advisory work, I do speaking, we certify people in our work have trusted certified partners around the world that use our work.

But one of them is speaking. I still love to speak. I speak about a hundred times a year around the world. I enjoy that people say, Oh, you don't want to get on a plane again. No, I do. I sometimes bring my kids with me, my wife with me. I have a relatively balanced home life and I still do a lot of speaking.

So, on the David Horsager site, you will see front and center. First thing, a video, because that's the best way someone can experience me if they haven't seen me before. So that creates credibility and curiosity because they're seeing me in front of 10, 000 people and they're sensing what I would be like.

So whatever people are trying to market or sell, If you have referrals or references, that matters. If they can experience it, that matters. And then [00:20:00] if there's other credibility, that can help.

And all three of those build curiosity, like, Ooh, I might want this too.

Allan: I think the experiential component is so much more important. I mean, I think of my own buying behavior, exactly as you said, I go have a look at the Amazon reviews and yes, I know some of them might be fake or whatever, but you can generally weed out the fake from the real ones really go into depth.

They're much more balanced, but then also My next step is usually a YouTube video, an unboxing video. I want to see, okay, how does the product plug in? Uh, What size is it? How does it work? All of that sort of thing. And, trusted reviewers that generally have a balanced opinion on things.

So, um, now for even not very huge purchases I mean, that's an easy way to create trust, where someone has that, almost like that experience with a product without even buying it. So landing on someone's webpage and submitting a contact form or buying on their website or whatever is like a third or fourth step, generally speaking.

[00:21:00] So, yeah.

David: And I think video is totally underutilized. Even on my own sites, because changing our assessment site, and we're going to explain every, every assessment as they go, so that it's like, oh,. Here's why you would use this assessment.

Here's where you'd use it. Here's how you'd use it. I think that today, because people are used to that, they're TikToking, video, all this stuff. They don't want to read it. that also builds credibility because one of the. thing you know and we know is people like to buy from a person, not a place.

And so what happens is instead of buying from MeasureMyTrust. com or TrustEdge Leadership Institute, it's like me or one of my teams saying, Hey, here's how I use the trusted teams assessment. I do it here and we test the team and then we can find gaps and we can close them and then we have more success this way.

And that's explained through a video. It's much more I feel connected to someone that's not the institute.

Allan: The other thing that really hit me about your eight pillars is like, [00:22:00] none of them are really just, quick tricks that we can just sprinkle on top of a crappy product or a crappy service or whatever you need to intrinsically beat competent, you need to be committed. You need to have contribution and connection.

And so, I mean, that's a double edged sword, but I think for the most part that's great, right? Because that kind of weeds out the people who are going to create trust in a false way versus someone who's actually going to create trust and do good as well.

David: Well, we say it all the time, trust takes work, but it's work that's worth it. And so, the problem that I joke about is many people want a quick fix. They want instant gratification. They wanna look trusted without actually being worthy of it. And the problem is you can manipulate the pillars for a little while to look trusted without actually being worthy of it.

But what we're actually going for at the end of the day is trustworthiness in leaders, companies, global governments. And that does take work and it takes ongoing work. That's why consistency is so much work, because I can do something today, but not next week, tomorrow. [00:23:00] That's why commitment is like, Oh, but I wanted this to be done.

It doesn't work that way. And it's really work. I, a mentor of mine, I remember said, David, you'd make a lot more money if you just opened a PR firm that helped people look trusted instead of actually having to be trusted, because that's what a lot of people want. And of course, we went the different road it's actually about being it and but it's pretty amazing to see what happens, whether it's in the military or in global governments or pro sports teams or businesses or in my own life.

And that might be why I'm so passionate about this is like this work changed me. As a dad, and a, person too, so, I'm grateful for it and yet, that is the problem. It takes work.

Allan: Yeah, I believe that.

often it's the case that, there's a startup, they're scrappy, they do all of these kind of out of the box, creative ideas and the thing that gets them to success then turns into like, they water down their message. They start kind of being more the same.

They stopped taking kind of the [00:24:00] risks that took them uh, places and they start losing that trust, especially of the people who backed them early on. Like I was on Reddit the other day and there's a piece of software that's uh, really well used in a particular niche and people were saying, Oh man, I hope they don't become too successful because then they'll IPO and then it'll all be about profit and they won't care about the users anymore and all of this sort of stuff.

And I thought that was interesting that success can really turn the tide on trust with your user base. If you don't keep doing the things that created that trust, that created people, that attracted people to you. What have you seen in terms of that sort of thing happening with institutions, with governments, with whatever?

And I mean, what's the antidote to that?

David: Well, I mean, it's a huge, true problem. So, for people to actually stick to their values, and stick to what they say and stay long term, there's very few people that have done it. Very few [00:25:00] companies. I think IBM is an interesting example that's, they've reinvented, like, everything.

eight different times and stayed true to their core values in many ways, imperfect, as big as they are. But you didn't see today, I mean, Southwest Airlines was the love of everybody for 35 years, right? But now it looks like they might have this takeover. they're switching how they're doing things with seating.

They're switching how they're doing other things. And I think it's going to Backfire because it's again, they're doing many things against the values they said they had for all these years, right? And now they're becoming like everybody else, possibly, if this whole thing goes through and it's creating a lot of fear for a lot of people.

So, there's two sides here. One is being true to something, which is kind of who we are, but being able to change how we serve. So IBM was an example of they're kind of true to this innovative. They're who they are, but they're totally doing different things.

They're not making computers anymore. They're not doing this. They've changed how they serve people. And so, I can be true to my [00:26:00] values and for instance, maybe in the past we delivered all certification and training in person and now we, deliver using technology. It's the same content, but it's a different way of serving people.

But now, for instance, I think Southwest are going to change how they're serving people and how they're doing these things and It might, be public in a different way and in different voices in it to make more money quicker. And that's going to change the culture, and I think long term that's going to be a big mistake if they go that way.

One other side note, so one of the boards that I'm on, we have two big parties in the U. S. Republican, and Democrat.

I'm on a board out in Washington, D. C., at the Capitol, that brings together Republicans and Democrats from Congress. And I'm the only non, Congress person invited to this private location, all this stuff. And all I would say, a little bit in response to your question, there's ways to do these things.

And so it is work, but it made me think of this work with the Democrats and Republicans where people can think, how do they even do it? When people say, [00:27:00] what's the biggest problem with trust is that, the GDP is that the Congress is it's selfishness.

Problem with trust building is selfishness that's the biggest challenge to building trust.

Allan: Well, the other thing is also as an organization or institution, I think gets bigger, they get much more risk averse. There's now a committee making their decisions rather than just a scrappy group of entrepreneurs or renegades or whatever, right? And so, now the message starts to get watered down The risks that they took previously The legal counsel wants to have a say into, all of this sort of stuff. And I mean, that represents both a threat and an opportunity for other players in the market. And, I mean, I can list dozens of organizations that, began as that.

Group who uh, different, who were clear, who were consistent about what they did. You knew who, what they stood for. You knew their character and now they just look like every other S& P 500 corporation. Right? So,

David: the sad thing. It's [00:28:00] who they hire. It's how they set things. It's how they systemize things. And and yet there are some examples of people that stayed who they were and grew and at least for longer than others,

Allan: What examples come to mind?

David: Well, one example would be Apple stayed that way longer than many.

And now it's like, well, this is another iPhone like all the others. But I mean, it was a long time of staying creative and growing massively. And Microsoft has had jolts back to that creativity and who they were at the beginning. but they have to push against that. they have to work to not be, over bigness hurt them, right?

Like, Oh, it's systemizing everything. But there are some that have stayed creative, innovative in the way they've done things longer, at least than others. Now we're seeing, I can't use that example forever because obviously it's biting us right now or the world. it seems like it's lost some luster, but Yeah, there's I would just say this.

I have seen people do little things that have made a big [00:29:00] difference to build trust ongoing and even to revert back to how they were even when they lost their way and admit it and apologize and say, Hey, we're going this way again, where you're going to be innovative and scrappy and we're going to stay true to these values Levi's jeans was one of those, for example, in America that like kind of lost their way, became like big jean companies said, no, this is who we are, like, American made jean company like this. We're going to be who we were

Allan: I've always felt the culture and the character of an organization kind of flows down from either the founder or the current leader. I know it's sort of in vogue to have these core value workshops. . What are your core values? And of course, everybody says honesty and hard work and, customer focus and all of that.

Sort of stuff. But often this is very, very manufactured rather than what actually is, what are your thoughts on character and values of an organization? Is it just something that just flows on [00:30:00] from the founder and or the current leader of the organization versus something that you can actually create within the business

David: I think you can create it and there are two different things. The quick one is we have a seven step process for how do you create character in an organization? What does character look like here? We define it we communicate and all that.

So that's one thing that can happen. We've seen it happen. We've seen it be rebuilt or refreshed or, in a new way. That seven steps is under actually the character pillar But the idea that I think that's critical to what you're talking about, that I I agree, it's great to have pithy messages and all that memorability, but if they aren't actionable, it doesn't work.

If you can't act on it today or tomorrow. But the biggest way to form it in the way you're talking about is to make sure there's a story attached. Because stories last. Stories make it sticky. Stories, I have a whole little, one of the tools is how to tell a story because stories are trusted. I can see that.

when I asked the first maybe the only non [00:31:00] family billionaire of the Walden family for Walmart he was a mentor of mine. I got to stay in his house and, and he's a really great, amazing guy. And I think he was there from when it was like, 2 million to 200 billion or something, so, so I said, how did you create such an amazing culture? Because they were a big company, of course, everybody threw darts at them and said they were bad in this way and that way. But actually I've been in a lot of big companies and for that timeframe, they were, it was an amazing culture at Walmart.

And he said, well, it comes down to one key thing. Every Walmart around the world has 7am Saturday morning meetings. That's the day we have the most people in the Walmart and in every store. so before the most people get there, the rush, as many people as we can, we get into a room and every Walmart has the room and they meet and they start by sharing stories of what works.

So appreciative inquiry, basically. They [00:32:00] say, what's working here? what are we doing well? Hey, Joe just did this. Hey, somebody at our Walmart had an idea to have greeters. Oh, let's all have greeters around the world because it worked. Hey the first time ever. Our Walmart, the cleaning people couldn't come till night time, but they wanted the contract so they said they'd do it through the night.

They did it through the night? And then people didn't slip on the floors and it didn't get in the way of the traffic? Let's have everybody ask their cleaning company to clean in the night instead, whatever. So all these great things happen and they told stories. And then when someone did something great, they told that story that went around to all the Walmarts.

So we have stories, even in my own Institute, we tell stories that align with a value. If you don't tell stories, it's not sticky. It's not actionable. I don't see it. Right. So for instance, one time we had a big client. Their headquarters are in Connecticut. That's a state on the East Coast. And their, the event they were having to train all these leaders was in Chicago.

That's in the middle of the country. Well, one of my team members got it wrong. And they [00:33:00] sent all these toolkits and manuals and all this work to Connecticut office. It's gonna happen tomorrow morning. Chicago is about an 8 hour drive from our offices. I don't know where I was flying around the world, but I got the message, and it was end of day, and all this content is at the UPS store, which is like FedEx, and basically wasn't gonna get there in time, wasn't gonna get, so one of our employees, not the one that made the mistake, said I'll drive it.

And at 5 p. m. he drove through the night till 2 in the morning or something, got it to the client, and then turned around and drove back.

Allan: Wow.

David: Whoever was on staff that day said, you can have a hotel. He drove back, did not charge for mileage, and never told me, and I didn't find out this even happened, till days later.

Even though it wasn't that employee's fault at all, and everybody knew it. Now, that [00:34:00] is a story of the commitment pillar to our brand. And everybody goes, wow, that commitment reflects that. who are trying to be here.

Allan: That's incredible. Well, what a note to finish on that, David. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time, your knowledge, your expertise. And once again, congratulations on your new book. So the Trust Matters More Than Ever. So, Everybody should get that as well as the Trust Edge. So, both fantastic books I'm sure.

So, thank you so much, David, really appreciate it. And we're going to link to all your resources. So it's trustedge.com and davidhorsager.com.

David: Thank you, Allan. So appreciate you and value the friendship and believe in all that you're doing.

Allan: Thank you so much, David.

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