Networking Doesn't Have to Be Icky (And How to Prove It) with Jayson Gaignard

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Jayson: one of my philosophies is that you should invest in people like you to invest in a business because amazing people become increasingly amazing over time. So for me, I get far more excited to meet somebody. Who I would deem as like, undervalued, a diamond in the rough. Because for me, just even a little bit of an investment in that relationship could mean the world to them.

Allan: All right. Welcome back to the Lean Marketing Podcast, where we break down strategies and tactics to help you grow your business by doing less marketing. And today we're talking with a world renowned expert at running physical marketing events. And I wanted to have him on.

I met him at an event in Canada, which was an incredible event, but he's someone who really knows how to blend digital and physical events and spaces and experiences. And I think that's something that in our digital world, we're missing a little bit. Like we've gone, I think too far to the digital.

Jayson welcome to the podcast. How [00:01:00] are you?

Jayson: I appreciate you having me on. It's an honour.

Allan: That's awesome. So you're, probably best known for MMT, which stands for Mastermind Talks, which is correct me if I'm wrong, it's a conference that runs once a year where you have incredible people you know, the likes of Ryan Holiday, Tim Ferriss, you know, really big names and basically an exchange of ideas with incredible people from all over the world.

Am I on track? Off track? And what have I missed about introducing you?

Jayson: Yeah, no, it's been an evolution. So it's taken many forms, one could say. But Yeah, I mean, really, the essence of what we do now, it's an annual gathering. It's an invite only community, effectively, of entrepreneurs, and we have a, an annual gathering that's usually three and a half days in duration.

We have entrepreneurs that fly in from all over the world all various different industries from traditional brick and mortar businesses to wearable technology and kind of everything in between. And it is truly a, just a beautiful collection of individuals. So one of the things that makes our community rather unique is actually it's a community.

So it's not like a professional organization like an EO or YPO [00:02:00] or those kind of things. Like there is a very strict curation process that's put in place and as a result it really creates really magical three days together. And if I could distill the essence of our gatherings to anything, it's great people, great food, great people.

Great experiences in a beautiful setting with learning intertwined throughout the event, because to me, the best learning doesn't always happen in the conference room. It happens in conversation. So it happens over dinner, over yoga in the morning or in between sessions. So we try to be very thoughtful in that design and because of the caliber of folks in our community, it can be very kind of peer to peer focus, which makes it very different as well.

So during our three and a half days together, we may have like one or two speaker sessions uh, and that's it. So.

Allan: I totally agree with that. I think that's very clever because to me, probably one of the least efficient ways to get information is from, sitting in a seat, listening to someone on stage. But the real value of events like this is the peer to peer interaction, the discussions between sessions, the connection that happens there.

What's [00:03:00] magical about a. physical kind of event experience versus, like, why not do this as a Zoom webinar or a few days over Zoom or something like that where, you know, no one has to fly, no one has to bother with hotels, you don't have to bother with event spaces and all the hassles that come with catering and all of that sort of stuff.

Jayson: Well, I think we know now that it's not the same. We didn't know this at the beginning of the pandemic. And I share that because our business hinged on in person live experiences. And when the pandemic hit, I mean, our business was decimated. We have an incredibly, incredibly loyal community that stood by our side.

It was, I have some stories to share there. They were just absolutely amazing. I just speechless as far as how our members showed up for us. But in that time period, I remember a lot of my friends in the space. I actually put together a community of community. Facilitators, one could say, and event producers to help each other navigate these times of like, how do we deal with contracts and, you know, [00:04:00] rescheduling things?

And how do we switch to like online events? And I share that because one friend of mine specifically who actually has, done a lot of live experiences and has also done a really good job on the digital side. When the pandemic hit, he just went all in on digital, which is something he knows exceptionally well.

And he's like, the margins are way better. I'm never going back to in person. And I felt I was the only one. I was like, listen, we're in a holding pattern for me. Cause I digital is not the same for me. And so I'm like, we're going to weather this storm. Not knowing that we 14 day quarantine. And a lot of this would be behind us back then.

So I share that because like, we didn't know we'd have to weather this storm for two years. Yeah. But for me, we were in a holding pattern until we could go back to live experiences. Now we did a lot of new things for us and our community to support them through the pandemic. So, I couldn't imagine, having a business 20 years ago, pre Zoom and all that kind of stuff and having a pandemic hit it would have been a challenging time for many of us.

So there's definitely some things that we've also kept over, like now that the [00:05:00] pandemic is over and we're doing in person again, and there's very much an appetite for it. We've kept some of those digital things because it does work as a great glue to keep the momentum going in between our live experiences, but for us specifically, that's what we're known for.

We are known for our in person, you know, live events. It's put in contrast to what you get, you know, over a zoom session. You know, there's some people who are really great at facilitating zoom stuff, but it, there's nothing like being especially us, like we, we strive to create a very safe space where people can really remove the mask.

And especially we serve entrepreneurs that tend to wear almost be like this beacon of certainty for their teams and their families are like, everything's good. I'm going to make payroll this week. Don't worry. As the ground is shifting below their feet. So to create a space like that, it's important.

And that is very hard to replicate in a digital format, as opposed to when you're in person at a dinner with six other people, and it's a three hour dinner. Like that's where, People really open up and put down their guard. And there's a bunch of [00:06:00] science around like, physical regulation and all that kind of stuff, which is just hard to do digitally.

So, we've tried our best to kind of carry both sides of it. But I, again, years ago in the midst of the pandemic, a lot of people felt like the physical stuff didn't matter. And even you see it with people in office spaces. Right now there's this call back to the office and we thought we'd be remote forever.

So yeah.

Allan: So have you gone back to in person?

Jayson: Yeah. So I don't know if the term is like relevant to where you are in Australia, but like, there's like the game of like double Dutch where you're like skipping. Are you familiar with that?

There was so, so if you're like skip rope and there's like one person at one end and one okay. Gotcha. a person in the middle.

That was us navigating the pandemic, like trying to time when we could do our live events again. So, all this to say, yeah, in 2020 we moved to 2021, and then when 2021 came around, we had to move to 2022. So, we did an event in 2022, two in 2023 because we were actually going to move to doing two live experiences a year, and then realized that it was just too much for us, so we decided to scale back to an annual [00:07:00] gathering again.

So, yeah, we've worked and again, during the pandemic, we've tried to shift a little bit that like, again, we're doing a lot of digital offerings and that kind of stuff. But it's very clear from our community that what they come to us for is our live and in person experiences. And we've been able to really anchor into that over the last like 18 months of like, that's our positioning in the marketplace and that's our unique ability that we just need to hit out of the park consistently.

Allan: Nice. I have tremendous respect for anyone who runs amazing live events, just the logistics involved and all the complexities of getting people and travel and hotels and all of that stuff and just getting the stars aligned and

So, I've been to many. In person events. Some have been just mediocre, terrible, you just want to get out of there. Others, you hope that they never end. And what's the difference? I mean, you've been I don't mean what's the difference in the experience, the difference in the experience is obvious, but what's the magic dust that goes behind [00:08:00] the scenes that makes an incredible event versus just a mediocre or crappy event?

Because presumably with both, there's quite a bit of logistics behind the background. There's quite a bit of organizing, all of that sort of stuff. what's your secret sauce that makes it so incredible?

Jayson: Well, for us, I think a lot of the heavy lifting is done in advance with our curation process. So we're very selective as far as who we serve, because we know there is a very specific type of individual, like they're not only an entrepreneur. They're like a segment of that entrepreneur that we serve.

So for us, we don't have, we don't do marketing in a traditional sense. We don't do sales calls. We do exploration calls. And on those calls we try to assess if there's synergy between like, what their needs are and what we can really deliver. And for me, I think I want to get to a point one day, cause we, Tell people about other organizations all the time.

Like, Hey, I don't know if MMT is the right fit for you. Maybe you should look at this. I wish we took affiliate fees. We'd probably make more money in affiliate that we would in our main business. And we, that's a sense of like pride for us. Like [00:09:00] we actually, one day I almost want to like track how many people we turn away because it just keeps us honest.

That we are very specific as far as who we serve. So all that to say, there's no surprises necessarily, like, because we know what people want. And what makes MMT rather unique as well is usually how a traditional event works is they get some big name speakers and those speakers drive butts in seats.

And like, that's the model for us. We're lucky enough to sell out far in advance and then get a we have an intake form that goes out to our membership and we get a really good understanding of like their wants and needs. And then we designed the live experience based on those wants and needs. So if people are struggling with culture in the business or remote teams or AI is an area of focus for them, then we will design tracks and that kind of stuff to kind of meet those needs and those desires.

But because of the price point of our live experience as well, I mean, membership for MMT is like 17, 500. It gives us the freedom to be a lot more high touch when it comes to designing live [00:10:00] experience. So like we do assigned seating throughout the event, which is one of the things our members love most.

So if I know somebody struggling with, you know, launching a podcast, I'll sit them next to a big name podcaster and that kind of stuff. So that above and beyond that really makes it different than just like buying a ticket to a conference where there's two, three thousand seats. But again, the curation process, I think it makes it effortless for us to like hit it out of the park.

We literally ask in our intake forms, like fill in the blanks. This is the two most important, there's about 40 questions that people have to fill out. The two most important questions to us are fill in the blank. I'd be ecstatic about MMT if dot. And the second one is I would be disappointed about MMT if dot.

And as long as you're able to like stay within that parameter that you're giving them guardrails, There's going to be no surprises when you get the feedback forms. so yeah, it's just, it's a very high touch experience. But again, I think it the care and curation that goes on the front end just makes our job so much easier.

Allan: So really doing your research around who's coming, first of all, making sure that the right people are coming, doing your research [00:11:00] around what are they wanting to get out of the event. And then I love that idea of assigned seating, you know, seating someone who has a need or a want and connecting them with someone who has achieved that.

I think that's very clever. That's a good way of doing it.

Jayson: Yeah, it works exceptionally well. And that's a, one of the things that in the pandemic, when we couldn't do live experiences, we It forced us to get creative and figure out, well, what are some of the core things that people love most about our live events and how can we pull those experiences digitally?

So, one of the things that our members love most in between our events is something we call MM3, which was borrowed off this idea of doing assigned seating. So every other month we get our members to opt in to an opportunity to be placed in a group of three. with two other members who they may or may not know that may have a similar focus.

There's that same level of care and intention in their pairing and then they meet for a 45 minute zoom. And there's a bit of a structure to a conversation for that and people love it. So, there's definitely some things that we've taken from our [00:12:00] in person live experiences and tried to pull them digitally that have worked rather well.

Allan: that's cool.

so speaking of that one of the things that , I find challenging. After gonna a conference, I go, I'll go to a conference. I'm inspired, I'm pumped. I've got lots of notes, lots of good ideas, and then I leave, I go back to my world and maybe keep in touch with a few people.

And maybe that's a reflection on me not putting enough effort post-conference to keep connected with people or you know, had to use the word bit cringe networking or whatever. But, what am I doing wrong? What's a good way to be a good attendee at a, conference where it's not just, you know, a couple of days of inspiration, a few ideas or whatever, but where you keep connected, you know, like in the case of yourself, you're running these things annually, you mentioned the zoom, the monthly zoom calls, but what's best practice for keeping connected to people that you've met in a physical kind of environment and making sure that you've extracted a lot of value and given, of course, a [00:13:00] lot of value to people that you've connected with.

Jayson: Yeah. I mean, I think Especially in this digital age, I have my phone somewhere. It's always within like arm's reach. It's important you know, for me, if I were to take a step back, the live experience that we joined, in July that was the first event I've attended as an attendee.

Gosh, like six years. And that is like the closest. Event similar to MMT. So for me to be like, be an environment like that was a treat because I'm always on the other side, like, you know, putting things together and all that kind of stuff. So I share that because I have a philosophy of like 40-20-40 meaning a lot of people, like they don't put much thought into going to an event until they're on the plane flying there and they're like, all right, what am I going to get out of this?

Or, you know, how am I going to make the most out of this? And then after the event is done, they don't do much to me. There's huge opportunity in the, like the lead up and there's there's things you can do during the event itself, but then there's huge opportunities as well in the post. So for me in the lead up this particular [00:14:00] event, especially with, like the higher price point, higher investment events in the one that you and I went to was like curated as well. There's usually some kind of Rolodex and for that event specifically, there was a day that they promised the Rolodex and I was literally hitting like refresh on my Gmail.

I'm like, what is this Rolodex coming in? And it showed up like three, four days later, which drove me bananas. Because I want to start doing my pre work. I want to have a good understanding of like who's there. Not so I can create like a hit list of people per se, but if I run into you, I know. the books that you've written.

I know, you know, the success of those books. I know your business. So look, I can go into those conversations not blind because usually like when you're entering a conversation and you're going through small talk, you're trying to find like those commonalities. If I can do the heavy lifting in advance, I can go right to like, Hey, Allan, I know, you know, Joey Coleman or MBS or whatever the case may be.

And those are things that we can fast track, you know, how fast our connection happens. so to speak. So. [00:15:00] There's usually a lot of prep that if there is a Rolodex in advance I try to take advantage of that. During the event itself, I plan like nothing. I plan to do no emails, not, I tell my wife, don't call me, I won't be around, cause I'm like, I'm playing full out.

I'm gonna wake up early, and I'll see if there's anybody who wants to do coffee, and I'm gonna stay out late, which is not my style. But I'm going all in on this, and that's really important. And like literally like playing full out. Like if I walk into a room, I'm trying to like, I have to, I'm not like actually a very like extra extrovert like Dan Martell.

Dan Martell is like an extrovert. Like he walks into a room and like he's just a powerful force. I'm not like that. I have to like turn it on. And it's still authentic and genuine. But like, I know I need to like step into that, so to speak. So, like those are things I do. because I did usually like a lot of conferences, like nine to five.

Meaning there's huge opportunities to set something up before or into the evenings. So even while we were together, I was trying to put together and it was very quick because [00:16:00] they didn't provide a schedule in advance. I was like, well, maybe I could do a dinner one night or actually did like axe throwing, which was like a unique experience where we had maybe 15, 20 people from the event.

Something like that. And that was an opportunity for me to, like, bring people together with no outside reason than like, it's just, there's nothing to do that night or what have you, and I could be that catalyst. And it gives me an opportunity to kind of deepen those relationships. So playing full out and really leaning into the event itself when the event is going on, I think is really critical and trying to find those opportunities of like, you know, In that dead time of like, Hey, do you want to grab a coffee?

Do you want to go for a walk? Do you want to come to a dinner I'm putting on tonight? And then after the event, to me, that is like the most high leverage thing you could do. What I did for that specific event was I went through the Rolodex and as many people as I could, specifically those who I had a touch point with.

I sent them an email or I sent them some kind of message. Just saying like, it was great to meet them. I would often reference like one of the things that came up in the conversation or something that [00:17:00] resonated with me or, you know, I've heard amazing things about them, whatever the case may be.

And to me, even if that was our last touch point I have this philosophy of like always ending a relationship on a high. Meaning if I have that touch point by email with somebody and it was a, you know, ended it on a high note. And if I send, like, gratitude to somebody, I often send something in return, like, it's very rare that those emails don't get responded to.

But, like, two years from now, if I need to connect with that person for some reason, I can then pick up from where that thread left off and say, like, Hey, you know, we met at this event two years ago, and I'll use that same email thread, because there's, you know, consistency bias. If they responded to me before in good spirit and that kind of stuff, they'll stay consistent with that.

And that, to me, having all those, like followups and ending those relationships on a high note. And then I'll also try to like follow them on social media because I want to kind of bring them into my world or like, I want to know more about them. And just naturally, you know, relationships will [00:18:00] evolve over time.

And that's one of the beautiful things about, you know, social media and that kind of stuff. So like, that's how at a high level I do some, like, I try to maximize. And that's also how I think of when we do Our events and our live experiences. How can I take that burden off of our members? How can I do the assigned seating and find the connections that need to happen?

How can I make sure there's no dead time in the evenings? I'll plan something or I'll have things that people can opt into. And then like after an event, how can I continue to connect, you know, our members and that kind of stuff. But yeah, that's a high level formula of what works really well for me when it comes to going and attending live experiences.

Allan: one of the feelings I got when I spoke to you is you're a real connector. You know, you have amazingly influential people who are well known household names who come and speak at your events or who know you or who speak well of you. How have you built those relationships? You're not Oprah, you're not someone super famous or whatever. Or know, pretty much the who's who of anyone who's anyone either knows you [00:19:00] or spoken at your event or connected with you in some way. So that tells me you're, you know, you know, something that we don't know.

Jayson: I've Been trying to crack 2000 followers on Instagram for like two years and I'm like 1,994. So he said, I'm on no Oprah. I'm like, yeah, you know what? I'm no Oprah. I've been trying . But uh, no, I mean, You know, one of the philosophies I have that has worked really well for me.

So, I don't draw a lot of value historically when it comes to learning about relationships and how to invest in relationships and that kind of stuff. I don't draw a lot of inspiration from, like, books that exist in that space. Either books in the relationship space are, tend to be, like, high level.

Like social isolation is a big problem, but there's no real solutions or books are very tactical to the point like networking to the point of being icky. And for me, what has driven most of my philosophies on business or on, on relationships. One is the study of like intimate relationships. Because there's a lot to learn [00:20:00] there.

The second is like personal development and personal growth. Because it's hard to ask. Of others like vulnerability and trust and all that kind of stuff. If you don't bring that to the relationship yourself. And then the third thing is investment principles and specifically the power of compounding relationships over time.

And I share that because one of my philosophies is that you should invest in people like you to invest in a business because amazing people become increasingly amazing over time. So for me, I get far more excited to meet somebody. Who I would deem as like, undervalued, a diamond in the rough. Because for me, just even a little bit of an investment in that relationship could mean the world to them.

If I make a connection, or whatever the case may be it could just, it's a big investment in the relationship. As opposed to, if I want to become friends with Richard Branson, he's not looking for any more friends. So it would be really hard to get on his awareness. The best time to be friends with Richard Branson was in 1970.

So, I've missed that boat to some degree. So I share that [00:21:00] because a lot of the people I quote unquote know that are big names are people I've known for a long time when they weren't big names. So, but I saw some, Ryan Holiday is a great example. I went to an event years ago. it was an event that actually fundamentally shifted my, my mindset on like the value of being in a room with like fascinating people.

It was actually an event put on by Tim Ferriss. And it was an event geared towards authors who wanted to become New York Times bestselling authors. And I was in transition at the time. I'd never had the intention of ever writing a book, but it was 10, 000 to go for two days. And I'm like, at 10, 000 US there's probably going to be some really interesting people there.

And I had a friend of mine after the event ask, like, hey, did you get, like, 10, 000 of value from the event? And the answer was no, because from a content perspective, like, that stuff didn't apply to me, but I just felt really good about, you know, going to that event. At that event, that's how I met Tim Ferriss.

That's how I met Chris Ashley from Athletic Greens. Athletic Greens was a small seven figure company at the time. Ryan Holiday didn't have a book. [00:22:00] He didn't even have, trust me, I'm lying, at the time. How he was put on my radar was Tim Ferriss, Tucker Max, and a few other people were on stage, and they kept on referencing this guy named Ryan Holiday.

Who was like, and he would, like, he would agree with this, like an awkward kid at like the back of the room. And I was like, who is this guy? People keep referencing him. And then after the event I sent an email. And I invested in that relationship to some degree, and we stayed friends. And then actually when I leaned into doing my own event I had, you know, Ryan there.

That's actually where I met Joey Coleman was that event. Lewis Howes is, I met at that event. He was, Lewis Howes sold, LinkedIn courses back then. He didn't have the school of greatness. So again, amazing people. Dan Martell. I've known Dan Martell for 12 years. He had a little startup called Clarity FM and now he's really starting to hit his stride.

So that is one of the principles that has served me really well is invest in people like you and invest in business because amazing people become increasingly amazing over time. So I just play the long game when it [00:23:00] comes to relationships. I'm always looking for those real people.

Individuals that I can really invest in at an early stage, one could say. 100%.

Allan: assets, but the assets uh, are people, right? So, I love that.

Jayson: Yeah, and the beautiful thing again is like, to be friends with a Richard Branson now again, getting on his radar would be hard, but like, what could I do for Richard Branson that would actually move the needle for him? It would be very challenging. It would take a lot of time and energy.

As opposed to, if there's somebody who's an up and coming author and looking to get on podcasts, or whatever the case may be, A small little investment of my energy, my resources can be a profound shift for them. So yeah, I mean, I get far more excited about those individuals than anybody else.

But I mean, there's still times in my life where there's a gentleman named Shep Gordon who I ended up connecting with. And I'll share this from like the opposite spectrum because there may be I do have like Strategies and ways to get on the radar of like successful [00:24:00] people specifically like being in the event space.

Like I can't consistently have to like throw long shots, you know, to get big name speakers and those kind of things. But Shep Gordon is an example of somebody who actually had a genuine deep desire to connect with. Basically I had a handful of people reference me this documentary called Supermensch.

And they're like, you have to watch this documentary. This guy's just like you. And after like the third or fourth person, I was like, all right, I'll watch this documentary. I'm not one for watching much TV or documentaries for that matter. And I watched it and I was like, so basically Shep was a huge in the music space as a manager.

He was, he's been Alice Cooper's manager for the last 50 years. He managed Blondie, Luther Vandross, even Pink Floyd for a short period of time. So made a huge impact there, made a huge impact in film. It was like getting engaged to Sharon Stone, all this kind of stuff. And then he also created the whole celebrity chef movement.

So there was no celebrity chefs 20 years ago. Wolfgang Puck, Emeril Lagasse, like he's created all their [00:25:00] careers. So fascinating man. And he's also a man that like in conversation, people don't know who he is in the world of celebrity. He's a celebrity. So I share that because, When I realized, when I heard people talk about him in the pod, in the documentary, how Mike Myers would talk about him and other celebrities would talk about him, of just like, how they put him in such high regard, and he's a beautiful human, and the title of the documentary is like supermatch, like, you know, it's, he's a great man I was like, I never had the desire to connect with somebody, but like, if I had an opportunity to cross paths with this guy, it would be really interesting, all this to say, a couple months later, he was coming out with a book.

And I put it out to him. I said, listen, I'm assuming you want to get this book out, the masses one could say. And that takes a lot of effort and energy. If you are interested. I do have some experience in that domain. I have a lot of friends have had success in that domain and I'd love to support you.

And I don't think he answered the first email, but the second one he was curious. And he wanted to do, he's an old school [00:26:00] guy, he's an older gentleman, he wanted to hop on a call, so we did a quick call, he lived in Maui, and still lives in Maui, he's been there for 44 years, I said I don't know if there's Synergy here or not, but I'll fly to Maui on my own dime, and we can just talk for 15 minutes, and if there's Synergy, fantastic, if there isn't, I'll hop on a plane and go home, no big deal, he invited me to his house to stay at his house for 3 4 days, and I introduced him to Jordan Harbinger for the book and Tim Ferriss, he was on Tim Ferriss's podcast, but on Jordan Harbinger's podcast specifically, he opened with saying, if I were to have a son, I'd want him to be just like Jayson, which I was like, I don't know what more of an endorsement I, like, I could die now, but I share that because, you know, he had a need, I had an area of expertise and I was willing to do the work and I was also willing to kind of put myself out there, go above and beyond.

Like he was shocked by the idea that I fly to Maui just to talk to him. And to me that made the most sense and now it's been a beautiful relationship. So, there's other examples I can kind of share there. Andrew Wilkinson has some incredible stories of like how [00:27:00] he in his case has bought access to certain people.

So Andrew Wilkinson is a friend of both of ours and he he has done an incredible job connecting with very big names. And he's done that two ways.

One is just like cold outreach. And he has a great story of the gentleman, I forget his name. But he's a, Billionaire many times over, he started Quicken Loans out of like Detroit and sold Quicken Loans and basically was pouring 5 billion dollars of his own money into Detroit, and Andrew has a story, Andrew was like, not a known name back then, but he reached out to him with a cold email at like 3 in the morning and said like, hey, I love what you're doing, I love what you're doing, to like come meet you one day or what have you.

It could be even as you're like in transit going through an airport or whatever the case may be. Apparently within a couple of minutes I think it's Dan Gilbert, is the gentleman's name. He responded to him and said, Hey, come down to Detroit and we'll spend the day together. And that's, and Andrew did that.

He got to spend a full day with him and forge a friendship that way. So he's done that through like just cold [00:28:00] outreach. And then on the opposite side, I mean, Andrew is, you know, So he has access to resources now, so he doesn't have to hustle as much one could say. And so that's given him the ability to buy access to big names.

So oftentimes, And we've done this as well when it comes to getting big name speakers. Oftentimes these individuals have some kind of foundation or charity that they support. And if you go through those charities or those foundations and say, Hey, I would love to, you know, do lunch with so and so, in exchange for like a donation or what have you, that usually is enough leverage for a connection to, to be had.

And in Andrew's case, He bid on a charity auction, I think for 43, 000 to meet Bill Ackman, which is a, you know, a world famous investor. Andrew, again, using that philosophy that like amazing people become increasingly amazing over time, Andrew I've known for a decade. When I met him, he wasn't a billionaire.

He was struggling with like, you know, doing Shopify apps and that kind of stuff. [00:29:00] But Bill Ackman, when he had lunch with Andrew, found Andrew fascinating, so much so he invited him back to his office to meet his team. And, he ended up investing, I think it was like 50 million dollars, into Tiny. As a result of that.

So Andrew's a great example of like somebody like there's you never know how cold outreach can land for somebody. And also, you know, the ability to buy access and that can usually be done, especially when you go for the more successful people through charities and through foundations.

Allan: lessons there, but before I get into that how do you come across as I guess someone who's not just a desperate fan who wants attention or whatever, versus, you know, like if you're reaching out to someone who's much higher status than you you know, they have people.

you know, kind of every single day telling them how awesome they are, all of that sort of stuff. How do you kind of break through that barrier and stand out from all the other fans and almost, I [00:30:00] mean, come across closer to being a peer versus just someone who's one of their many fans?

Jayson: yeah, I think one philosophy to embrace is the idea of. Go the extra mile. It's never crowded. Meaning a lot of people, if you think about, you know, we live near a city and like, if I'm downtown in that city, you will see people with stacks of resumes and they will go from shop to shop with like a canned resume.

And you're not going to stand above the noise with, you know, canned resume. And I share that because a lot of mistakes that folks make is they like, well, they'll use a template. Or they'll just be lazy with that outreach. So to cut through that noise it's really going the extra mile.

So for one of the things I do is like, I usually do like a video email. That's something I've embraced for the last decade. Now there's all kinds of cool platforms like loom and those kinds of things, but that's a way to stand out in somebody's inbox. You think they may get 500 emails a day. How many times do they get a video email once a month, maybe at best.

So that is a way to stand out. And for [00:31:00] me. showing that you've done your research. So for example, if I'm doing like a Q and A for an MMT, like I show really early on in that discussion that like, I've done my research I've gone, you know, through the ins and outs of your book and whatever the case may be.

And that captures them right away. That makes them realize, Oh, this is different. So if you're able in that outreach to capture their attention and pull them in by showing you've done your research on them it's really helpful. And I mean, you know, there's a great story about Warren Buffett and Benjamin Graham.

Benjamin Graham was Warren Buffett's mentor and somebody that, like, Warren Buffett looked up to. And when Warren Buffett was, I think, getting out of college or something like that, he reached out to Benjamin Graham and said, Hey, I want to, like, work for you or what have you. And I'll work for you for free.

And Benjamin Graham said that's too expensive. He's like, for me to like, you know, train you or whatever the case may be, like it's a problem. And this is a challenge that a lot of people make when doing outreach to especially, you know, successful people. It's like, hey, I'll do [00:32:00] anything for you.

Like, how can I help? Well, now you're putting the onus on the person. They don't know you. They don't know your skill sets. You're putting the onus on them to try to figure out how you, a random person, can help. As opposed to doing an outreach and say like, Hey, this is what I know about you. From what I could tell, this is what you're focused on.

Like what I did with Shep, I reached out to him and I said, listen, I heard you're coming out with a book. My assumption is you want to get this out to the world. I have experience and expertise there, and I'm willing to put energy because I'm a huge fan of you and your message. That caught his interest enough to hop on a call, which then led to everything else.

So I think, yeah, if there's somebody you really want to connect with, there's no better time than now to get access to those types of people and to get on their radar. And again, if you go on that extra, mile in that outreach, I think it goes a really long way.

Allan: I've had very good success with video emails. And like you say, you want to show up as a patent interrupt. You don't, I mean, they're getting heaps of generic outreach emails every single day. So standing out in terms of the media use, but then also [00:33:00] and you know, I'm nowhere near as famous as some of these people that you're referencing, but literally every day I get outreach either via LinkedIn or email or whatever, and, automatic delete to all of these kind of generic ones.

But there are ones that Do stand out where, Hey, someone's done some personalized outreach. They've referenced something I've done. They want to provide value in some way and those I absolutely do respond to. So I think that, that makes a lot of sense. So to take a really personalized approach lead with value, be a genuine fan of of their work and not kind of just being self focused and trying to make that connection for self.

I think that, that makes a lot of sense.

Jayson: And I think one of the last things I'd add is be transparent as far as like the spirit of the outreach. Like if you want something from them, like be honest about it because nothing is worse than like somebody reaches out with a give or what have you. And you're like, what do they want? Like, especially if you're.

A big name. You're getting pitched all the time. People [00:34:00] want your time, your energy your likeability associated with them, that kind of stuff. So if you're able to like, put that to rest and be honest, like, hey, you know, this is what I'm looking to gain from this. Because there is, and I think this is the misconception or the things that people don't consider is like, there is a strong desire for folks to like, send the elevator back down.

There's a lot of successful people I know. that are just waiting for like the right mentee to come along, who's willing to put in the work and all that kind of stuff. So, again, let that shine through in your outreach. And I think that's the, one of the mistake people make is almost like this posturing of making them sound bigger than they are in that outreach.

There is, to showcase like your vulnerability or your, you know, your early stage entrepreneur or you're early in your career. I mean, that stuff pulls on the heartstrings for the right person and could go a really long way. So I definitely be honest about the spirit of your outreach.

And truth. Anytime I have a inkling of like, Oh, I'd really like to connect with this person. I pause and I ask myself why. [00:35:00] And that eliminates 80 percent of my energy of like, Reaching out to somebody because usually it's like ego related. Like it's like, Oh, if I met this person, it would do X, Y, Z for me or whatever the case may be.

So that is something that like I have internally of just like asking myself why. And if it's a strong enough, why then I'll go above and beyond in that initial outreach and go that extra mile. 100%.

Allan: be very specific with what you can help them with because saying, Hey, if I can help you in any way, let me know. You're kind of putting that cognitive load, on their back. if I had someone over to my house I'd say, look, if you're hungry, just help yourself with anything from my fridge.

Right. And I might be 100 percent genuine about that, but most people will be like, Yeah, I'm not going to go rifle through your fridge and make myself a sandwich. Versus if I put a plate of you know, freshly made sandwiches or something or cookies or whatever in front of you, that's a very different story.

You're like, yeah, I'll have, one of those. No problem. Right. So, very important. So, being very specific [00:36:00] about what you can actually help them with rather than just leaving it open and leaving it to them.

Jayson: Yeah. I mean, there's just notion of asking, like, how can I help you if you do that legwork? Yeah. That's a vehicle to make them feel seen. And like, well, that's a core human need. We all have, regardless how successful you are, is like to feel seen. So for you to like do your research on me in advance and figure out like, Hey, here's some things I can potentially support you with.

Cause these seem to be like a struggle for you or an area of interest that, you know, I'm willing to do the legwork. It's yeah, it's a huge opportunity.

Allan: and almost nobody ever does that when they're doing cold outreach. You know, it's just amazing how generic and standard most cold outreach is.

I want to finish off with one other thing and this may be a bit of a selfish ask. I want to ask from a speaker's perspective. So, you know, whenever I'm invited somewhere to speak, I want to make a big impact.

I want to move the audience to action, but also For my own ego, I want to do a really good job. in your experience, what have [00:37:00] been kind of the elements of a really good speaker? So someone who speaks at one of the events, how can they do an amazing job versus being mediocre and not having as much impact as they could?

Jayson: Yeah, I, so I hesitate to use this word of like authenticity cause it's like thrown around a lot, but here's one of the unique features about MMT, which really drives us home. So when I started MMT, I was coming off I had a very successful business, which I ended up sabotaging and like landed a quarter million dollars in debt.

So I started MMT with no money. And I didn't have money to pay speakers. And what we strive to be in that first year was almost like a TED talks for entrepreneurs. So I stole a page from something called the X prize, which ultimately what they do is they put up like a million dollar prize to solve this world problem, or this 10 million prize to solve this world problem.

So I did this 25, 000 prize for the best talk is voted by the audience for our first event. And [00:38:00] we had folks. Like, I don't want to name them all because I don't want to throw them under the bus, but big name folks, let's just say that, really big name speakers, some of them TED speakers and that kind of stuff.

For that first event, we had 15 speakers, the first place winner, second place winner, and the four people tied for third, none of them were the big names, none of them were the draws whatsoever. Joey Coleman, in fact, who I know is somebody you know as well he won the event. And he actually had twice the amount of votes of the second place winner.

Uh, And Joey was unknown, and even like, on this podcast, he wouldn't, you know, disagree that like, he doesn't have online following or any of that kind of stuff. Has a couple great books in the marketplace and that kind of stuff, but he's really well known within like, speakers and the reason for that is he went above and beyond on his, in his talk.

He was the only speaker who asked in advance of his talk, can I get a Rolodex of everybody or the name of everybody in attendance researched everybody in the event and actually included them as case studies into his talk. So he had everybody just like [00:39:00] captivated. But I share this because like that happened year one, no big name speakers that happened again in year two and that happened again in year three.

And in year two specifically, we had a gentleman you actually may know, ironically, he's a speaking coach now, but He was so confident that he was going to win this prize. He actually had a speaking engagement lined up, which was for more than what the prize was, but he was so confident that he was going to win this event that he's like, I'm just going to do your event instead.

He is the first speaker we've ever had that had no votes.

Allan: Wow.

Jayson: the reason for that is it was performative. And for our audience, and maybe this comes, the lesson is come, down to like knowing your audience. I'm sure in certain environments, like a performance may land, may resonate. With our audience, it doesn't.

Authenticity, you know, resonates. And we have, we've had people cry on stage and it's like genuine tears. And those are the ones that like, they pull on the heartstrings and they really move people. So, the polished, the highly [00:40:00] polished stuff. For at least our audience of people it doesn't tend to land for them.

And again, Joey's a great example of somebody who just went above and beyond everybody else and crushed it as a result.

Allan: Well, I'm glad polish isn't a factor then that gives me hope.

Jayson: You and me both, my man, you and me both.

Allan: Jayson really awesome talking to you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time, your wisdom, your knowledge and really just get connection with you. You're a cool person to connect with. How can people find out more about you and what you do? And of course, we'll link to all of those resources.

Jayson: Yeah, aJaysonon Gaynard, J A Y S O N, G A I G N A R D is like all the social things. I'm trying to get my Instagram past 2, 000, so maybe this will help me get over that edge. But

Allan: you over the line.

Jayson: but I mean, you're an example as well of like somebody who already has achieved kind of great success. But like, I still think it's the beginning for you.

So I'm excited that I was able to forge a [00:41:00] relationship with you a couple of months ago and definitely excited to see how this relationship flourishes and your trajectory over the next 5, years.

Allan: Thank you so much, Jayson. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for being on.

Jayson: I appreciate my man.

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